CMA: Congratulations and apologies.

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:58 pm

Congratulations:
CMA's new Do328 made its maiden flight out of YYC this morning! What a sweet looking machine...I couldn't help but imagine at the huge grins in that cockpit as they blasted out of YYC!

Apologies:
All you losers (and you know who you are) who spent the last couple of years criticizing CMA and swearing that the Do328 were B.S. and would never happen can start posting your apologies.

PS I'm not holding my breath because I know how few real "men" are on this site!!

G

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:21 pm

Yes, you have a good point. The vast majority of aviation rumours, especially those involving new equipment, always turn out to be true. Companies never exaggerate, employees never get the facts mixed up, dreams always have happy endings in Canadian aviation, and it was an absolute certainty since day 1 that those Dorniers were coming. Shame on you naysayers.

Jeepus what a jackass greewich. So one of about a billion ideas came true. Let's throw a party. The true test will be how long it sticks around. One day of operation will probably not be quite enough to earn it's keep.

I find it interesting that you have appointed yourself as arbiter of how many "real men" there are on the forum. Hey, whatever floats yer boat!

DragEraser · Post by **DragEraser** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:12 pm

Are you sure it was a rev flight?

matrix · Post by **matrix** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:59 pm

Are you sure it was a rev flight?

Yep

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:12 pm

A nice white, with blue stripe, color scheme.

Way to go CMA

flyer 1492 · Post by **flyer 1492** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:23 pm

Congrats CMA, on your first flight with the new aircraft. What kind of routes will you be flying it on?

Legacy · Post by **Legacy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:28 pm

Now go collect that whopping paycheck that your company is too cheap too pay what a Do pilot should be making. Cant afford the salaries, shouldn't be running the plane period

gasper · Post by **gasper** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:16 am

Congratulations CMA!

It looks good on ya! Glad to see you flying the new machine!

U/S · Post by **U/S** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:52 am

I thought Alta Flights owned that thing when I saw it on the ramp last week. The paint scheme is exactly the same as their Metros. I was thinking they had made a miraculous turn around, guess not.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:17 am

Doesn't change the fact that management/ownership there is appalling, and that their new(ish) payscale is boarderline criminal.

Don't be blinded by a shiney new a/c with a nice paintjob. That place just ain't what it used to be.

flyboeing · Post by **flyboeing** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:55 pm

What a bunch of whining pilots.......If the CP of CMA came up to you and said, "hey leave your cessna, or computer, or EI line and come fly CMA's Do-328 for 'X' amount of dollars" All of you would get a huge woody and say yes........quit being hypocritics because you know you would do it too. We fly because its a passion and we love it. Sure the wage isn't good but a least your out of your cessna, off your computer, or out of the EI line. Until you get a really job that pays well keep your mouth shut, quit complaiming.........now back to your cessna, or your computer, or your EI line.

chief · Post by **chief** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:35 pm

wanna bet?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:41 pm

I'll keep my cessna that pays better thanks!

flyboeing · Post by **flyboeing** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:05 pm

haha...thats funny cessna pay better...haha!!!! never the less why do people still find the need to whine.....you don't like it shut up, congratulated CMA on the expansion and stick to your cessna making more.

yeah i'll bet you would drop at anything to fly something bigger and better........

pika · Post by **pika** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:07 pm

What a bunch of whining pilots.......If the CP of CMA came up to you and said, "hey leave your cessna, or computer, or EI line and come fly CMA's Do-328 for 'X' amount of dollars" All of you would get a huge woody and say yes........quit being hypocritics because you know you would do it too. We fly because its a passion and we love it. Sure the wage isn't good but a least your out of your cessna, off your computer, or out of the EI line. Until you get a really job that pays well keep your mouth shut, quit complaiming.........now back to your cessna, or your computer, or your EI line.

Interesting post. Your premise that flying a bigger airplane (or ANY airplane) with a wage that isn't good is ok. Sounds just like the CMA philosophy that you are lucky to have a job so quit complaining. It starts at the bottom and goes from there. With your philosophy I think you will find that there will be nowhere to go to get that high paying job. Look at the rumoured Jetsgo MD83 FO's work stoppage to protest junior F100 FO's upgrading quicker. The association isn't interested in the problem (as it's all senior guys) so they have no support. When you make it to the top (jet world in my mind) and have to pay 30K to get there where else do you think there is to go? Any company I have worked for always looks at the worst wages in the industry and tells me that is industry standard. All of a sudden I'm lucky I don't have to pay to work at airline x.

And after being oh so eloquently called out by greenwich for not being a man... Is there a correct way to apologize after hearing the same Dornier rumour for six years and not believing with all my soul 24/7? Don't I look stupid now for leaving CMA five or so years ago! I could be flying a Dornier and at the same time leading the race to the bottom in regards to wages and working conditions all while only bonded for 13K! Or perhaps leaving there was for the best...

Greenwich, at the end of the day a job is a paycheque. I'm glad you like working there but don't get stupid promoting your employer.

Legacy · Post by **Legacy** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:54 pm

The ppl that promote the "whoring" of pilots should all be put ina room and beaten with a rubber stick. more beaten that bin laden needs a beating.

gonnabeapilot · Post by **gonnabeapilot** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:23 pm

Now go collect that whopping paycheck that your company is too cheap too pay what a Do pilot should be making. Cant afford the salaries, shouldn't be running the plane period

Yes, good call Legacy. If the company can't afford the "average" 705 salary they should have never attempted to enter the big leagues. But $22k for a 1900 f/o? That's not fair either so CMA should most definitely park their 1900s as well. But wait you say, that leaves them with nothing and 300 people are now looking for work. Well don't worry, those people will find gainful employment now that CMA's competitors, such as Peace Air, have the skies to themselves and can expand freely. But come to think of it, the pay at Peace Air isn't really all that great either for a pilot flying a Jetstream or a Pilatus. Well what's good for the goose is good for the gander and if Peace Air can't afford to pay a respectable pilot salary it's time that those greedy buggers park their airplanes as well. What's that you say? Now even more people are out of work and communities across Alberta and BC are without scheduled air service? Well don't worry, I'm sure somebody will take advantage of this great opportunity and start operating new sched service to these communities. Hmmmm, but come to think of it, the majority of operators don't pay anywhere close to a fair and respectable salary to their pilots so I guess they should park their airplanes as well. Might as well just shut the whole industry down, eh legacy?

<edited to try and show the sarcasm a bit better by adding this handy dandy emoticon>

It's easy to dump on CMA because they have chosen to apply their 1900 payscale to the Dornier. Just because a company isn't a 705 operator doesn't mean that that the ideas about equitable pay all of a sudden vanish. In turn, just because a company has decided to go 705 doesn't mean that it should be held to a whole different set of standards concerning employee pay. So let's face it, how many 703 and 704 operators across the country are paying a fair salary? If my friends and the mighty $24k (at the most) they take home every year are any indication, there aren't many. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the low wages but that's something that we as pilots must take responsibility for. Unless pilots make a unanimous decision to demand better wages I don't think it's fair to blame a company that's trying to remain competitive by cutting costs or the pilots who are trying to protect their jobs.

As far as CMA is concerned, I do believe that lifestyle is a big factor in job satisfaction. The fact of the matter is that the pilots at CMA live one of the best lifestyles out of any operator in Canada. Ask the pilots and even though many of them will grumble and complain, almost every single one will admit that their jobs are pretty easy. The difference in a day of work for a CMA pilot and a day of work for a Westjet pilot is next to nothing except one walks out to a 1900 and one walks out to a 737. How many of you can say that about your jobs? The boys at Thunderbird (CMA's sister company) start out making $28k a year. Do I think that this is a fair salary for an F/O on a 1900? Yes I do. However, in order to earn that extra money I'm now tied to my cellphone, always wondering if it's going to ring. When it does, I get to be whisked away to the middle of the frozen tundra in -30 weather where I end up desperately trying to scrape the snow and ice off of a frozen 1900 before busting my hump to load all the crud 19 passengers have brought with them. So I guess the question is by getting to avoid this lifestyle and to get a few extra goodies such as Air Canada travel benefits am I willing to make a bit less? For me the answer is an obvious yes. It's a conclusion many people seem to come to and you simply have to look at the 3000+ hour pilots that have been in recent CMA groundschools for the proof.

Are the owners at CMA really trying to screw their pilots? Contrary to what some people on this site seem to think, I'm going to have to say no. Why you ask? Because with all the cuts made recently, they have still protected the lifestyle that CMA pilots lead with no indication that things will change. Should CMA pilots be making a bit more? Yes. But as I said before, that's a decision that must be made by pilots industry wide. So until that day, I sit with my fingers crossed and try to enjoy my own little corner of the world.

Cheers,

gonnabe

Legacy · Post by **Legacy** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:00 pm

gonnabeapilot wrote:
Yes, good call Legacy. If the company can't afford the "average" 705 salary they should have never attempted to enter the big leagues. But $22k for a 1900 f/o? That's not fair either so CMA should most definitely park their 1900s as well. But wait you say, that leaves them with nothing and 300 people are now looking for work. Well don't worry, those people will find gainful employment now that CMA's competitors, such as Peace Air, have the skies to themselves and can expand freely. But come to think of it, the pay at Peace Air isn't really all that great either for a pilot flying a Jetstream or a Pilatus. Well what's good for the goose is good for the gander and if Peace Air can't afford to pay a respectable pilot salary it's time that those greedy buggers park their airplanes as well. What's that you say? Now even more people are out of work and communities across Alberta and BC are without scheduled air service? Well don't worry, I'm sure somebody will take advantage of this great opportunity and start operating new sched service to these communities. Hmmmm, but come to think of it, the majority of operators don't pay anywhere close to a fair and respectable salary to their pilots so I guess they should park their airplanes as well. Jeez, so much for our quaint little industry.....

It's easy to dump on CMA because they have chosen to apply their 1900 payscale to the Dornier. Just because a company isn't a 705 operator doesn't mean that that the ideas about equitable pay all of a sudden vanish. In turn, just because a company has decided to go 705 doesn't mean that it should be held to a whole different set of standards concerning employee pay. So let's face it, how many 703 and 704 operators across the country are paying a fair salary? If my friends and the mighty $24k (at the most) they take home every year are any indication, there aren't many.Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the low wages but that's something that we as pilots must take responsibility for. Unless pilots make a unanimous decision to demand better wages I don't think it's fair to blame a company that's trying to remain competitive by cutting costs or the pilots who are trying to protect their jobs.

As far as CMA is concerned, I do believe that lifestyle is a big factor in job satisfaction. The fact of the matter is that the pilots at CMA live one of the best lifestyles out of any operator in Canada. Ask the pilots and even though many of them will grumble and complain, almost every single one will admit that their jobs are pretty easy. The difference in a day of work for a CMA pilot and a day of work for a Westjet pilot is next to nothing except one walks out to a 1900 and one walks out to a 737. How many of you can say that about your jobs? The boys at Thunderbird (CMA's sister company) start out making $28k a year. Do I think that this is a fair salary for an F/O on a 1900? Yes I do. However, in order to earn that extra money I'm now tied to my cellphone, always wondering if it's going to ring. When it does, I get to be whisked away to the middle of the frozen tundra in -30 weather where I end up desperately trying to scrape the snow and ice off of a frozen 1900 before busting my hump to load all the crud 19 passengers have brought with them. So I guess the question is by getting to avoid this lifestyle and to get a few extra goodies such as Air Canada travel benefits am I willing to make a bit less? For me the answer is an obvious yes. It's a conclusion many people seem to come to and you simply have to look at the 3000+ hour pilots that have been in recent CMA groundschools for the proof.

Are the owners at CMA really trying to screw their pilots? Contrary to what some people on this site seem to think, I'm going to have to say no. Why you ask? Because with all the cuts made recently, they have still protected the lifestyle that CMA pilots lead with no indication that things will change. Should CMA pilots be making a bit more? Yes. But as I said before, that's a decision that must be made by pilots industry wide. So until that day, I sit with my fingers crossed and try to enjoy my own little corner of the world.

Cheers,

gonnabe

Ya gotta love the guys that actually TRY and make this industry worse than it is. Work for free too would ya?

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:03 pm

Holy take the internet too seriously Batman!

pika · Post by **pika** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:08 pm

Holy f*wk gonnabeapilot. What exactly is your point? Park the airplanes or stand up for our rights and get paid what we are worth?