In northern Saskatchewan a number of years back, I was f/o on the return leg of an empty medevac flight heading back up north. The captain got bored and without letting me know, rolled the Navajo (at night, waaaay up north so there were no lights around us). He let the nose drop and we went up to Vne before he levelled the plane out. I asked him not to do that again, and that was that...until he told other people at the company about his brilliant manoeuvre and got his ass fired. I got in trouble for not telling the bosses when he rolled the plane with me on board; the captain in question was a gun nut and I didn't want him walking around our tiny village with his handguns, holding a grudge against me. In retrospect I prolly shoulda told the bosses at the time.
Have I mentioned the captain wasn't, ummm, entirely sane? I tagged along with him during a meat-pickup flight in a 180 before I had experience flying on skis, and on the way to our destination we saw a huge, gorgeous black wolf running across a frozen lake. He popped open his window, took a handgun outta his pocket and proceeded to shoot at the wolf with his left hand, while flying the plane with his right hand. I asked him what the hell he was doing and he said that if he killed it, he could land and skin it, then sell the pelt to one of the locals. I drew the line at that though, and said I'd rat him out if he continued. Thankfully he shot neither the wolf nor me.
On a more relevant note...
My friend had access to a 150 aerobat for the summer a few years back, and I took it up for some fun; I have a weak stomach when it comes to aerobatics, so my fun sessions usually lasted 5 minutes or less, then it was time to come back down. I like the 150, it's a good honest plane, and it was kind enough to not bite me during my play sessions.
Doing a roll with a 150?
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Cat Driver
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PT6-114A :
You say :
" there are no more rivets in an aerobat over the regular 150 it is a myth the aerobat had sky lights and jetison doors and a 5 point harness that is about it. "
So you are saying all a Cessna 150 needs to be legal for aerobatics is to cut sky lights in it and change the door hinges to jetisonable and add a five point harness and it will pass the FAA certification for aerobatic flight?
By the way my Aerobat does not have a five point harness, I guess Cessna slipped up on that one.
Cat
You say :
" there are no more rivets in an aerobat over the regular 150 it is a myth the aerobat had sky lights and jetison doors and a 5 point harness that is about it. "
So you are saying all a Cessna 150 needs to be legal for aerobatics is to cut sky lights in it and change the door hinges to jetisonable and add a five point harness and it will pass the FAA certification for aerobatic flight?
By the way my Aerobat does not have a five point harness, I guess Cessna slipped up on that one.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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PT6-114A :
I assume you are a pilot, and also work as a pilot?
If you are you should think about how many impressionable young people read Avcanada and how many may take remarks like the ones you have made about the C150 and the Aerobat to be factual.
The Cessna Aerobat has signifigant structural changes compared to the C150 that allow it to be certified in the aerobatic category allowing an approved flight load factor of +6 and -3 G's. Also the POH lists 12 aerobatic manouvers and the entry speeds that the Aerobat is approved for.
May I suggest that giving out false information regarding the certification of these airplanes may lead to some ignorant person trying to perform manouvers that may break a Cessna 150?
I hope you are not a twin brother of hazatude.
Cat
I assume you are a pilot, and also work as a pilot?
If you are you should think about how many impressionable young people read Avcanada and how many may take remarks like the ones you have made about the C150 and the Aerobat to be factual.
The Cessna Aerobat has signifigant structural changes compared to the C150 that allow it to be certified in the aerobatic category allowing an approved flight load factor of +6 and -3 G's. Also the POH lists 12 aerobatic manouvers and the entry speeds that the Aerobat is approved for.
May I suggest that giving out false information regarding the certification of these airplanes may lead to some ignorant person trying to perform manouvers that may break a Cessna 150?
I hope you are not a twin brother of hazatude.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Jaques Strappe
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PT6 114A
Extra rivets is just a myth huh? I guess I wasted my time getting a class 2 aerobatic instructor rating and teaching in an airplane that was only rumoured to have extra rivets in the tail assembly.
As far as a skyight, 5 point and jettison doors, none are actually required.
Cat Driver has one, a texas taildragger I believe, I'll bet he can confirm the beefed up tail.
As I said in my earlier post, the most common and deadly mistake is letting the nose drop while inverted and either doing a split S or spiral dive. A skyight and 5 point won't help you with that.
Extra rivets is just a myth huh? I guess I wasted my time getting a class 2 aerobatic instructor rating and teaching in an airplane that was only rumoured to have extra rivets in the tail assembly.
As far as a skyight, 5 point and jettison doors, none are actually required.
Cat Driver has one, a texas taildragger I believe, I'll bet he can confirm the beefed up tail.
As I said in my earlier post, the most common and deadly mistake is letting the nose drop while inverted and either doing a split S or spiral dive. A skyight and 5 point won't help you with that.
Standby for new atis message
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Cat Driver
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Do you remember your entry speed and how many degrees of nose up pitch you needed before starting the roll?
I shudder to think of the exit airspeed when recovering from inverted a B18 on floats would attain if the entry were botched.
Cat
I shudder to think of the exit airspeed when recovering from inverted a B18 on floats would attain if the entry were botched.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Entry speed 160 kts, 20 degree pitch up, coming out about 20 degrees pitch down about 110 kts. You would lose about 500 feet getting the speed built up before you pitched it up so you had to plan for that.
If you did 2 at a time she would slow to about 90 kts coming out of the second one which is getting a little to slow and pretty sloppy on the controls.
Of course Cat that was in my other life!!!!
If you did 2 at a time she would slow to about 90 kts coming out of the second one which is getting a little to slow and pretty sloppy on the controls.
Of course Cat that was in my other life!!!!
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
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Cat Driver
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I wonder if 30 degrees nose up would have worked better? 
I am not going to tell you what I did with the PBY because I should be dead.
Cat
I am not going to tell you what I did with the PBY because I should be dead.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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captain-Dudley
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Yes flying acro in a plane that is not "certified" for it is foolish. but to clear some things up,, a 150 and 150A Are NOT the same airframe. the tail and several other members on the aerobat are stronger. its not just the wingspar and struts that need to be beefed up. (IE battery box).
As for doing "slow rolls" ? No you cannot do them in 150 or 150A. A slow roll is an inverted manourvre. and a 150/150A cannot sustain inverted flight. (not to mention the lack of power/thrust)
For All of those people that want to fly acro.. Go rent a Citabria, a 150A or a zlin and fly ACRO.
Flying acro in a 172 is like flying IFR in a Champ or PA-11.
CD
As for doing "slow rolls" ? No you cannot do them in 150 or 150A. A slow roll is an inverted manourvre. and a 150/150A cannot sustain inverted flight. (not to mention the lack of power/thrust)
For All of those people that want to fly acro.. Go rent a Citabria, a 150A or a zlin and fly ACRO.
Flying acro in a 172 is like flying IFR in a Champ or PA-11.
CD
Most of the points that need to be made here have already been made, except one. The major question is not so much wether or not the a/c can do the manouver, but wether the pilot is capable. If you have not been shown how to do a roll, it does not matter wether or not you are in a 150 an A150 a Zlin, a Citabria or a Pitts. You will most likely foul up and overstress the a/c. If you are in the GTA and want to try some aerobatics PM me. I can arrange some stuff with a qualified instructor on a proper a/c.
c'mon cat... either YOU tell us before WE die from anticipation of said story, or we'll knock you off. Either way you are toast.I am not going to tell you what I did with the PBY because I should be dead.
Cat
WTF did *ahem* SOMEONE you heard try in that bucket?
~ Ray Darr
PS: Even "fry-by-wire" bus-birds can get inverted. Major upset is a cool sim session to try (in a SIM, of course!).
~ NO Soup For YOU! ~
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Cat Driver
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" and a 150/150A cannot sustain inverted flight. (not to mention the lack of power/thrust) "
CD, The Aerobat is stressed for inverted flight to 3 G's however any sustained inverted flight will be without power because it does not have an inverted system for the engine.
Cat
CD, The Aerobat is stressed for inverted flight to 3 G's however any sustained inverted flight will be without power because it does not have an inverted system for the engine.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I ask because I think that it is funny that you give a guy shit about rolling a ho (witch im not saying it was right to role the ho) then you go on to say things like this.
"I am not going to tell you what I did with the PBY because I should be dead. "
Cat
and
"Do you remember your entry speed and how many degrees of nose up pitch you needed before starting the roll?
I shudder to think of the exit airspeed when recovering from inverted a B18 on floats would attain if the entry were botched."
Cat
You make it sound ok to be rolling B18 on floats and that that guy was not a fool.
Just my thoughs. But then again what do I know.
PT6
"I am not going to tell you what I did with the PBY because I should be dead. "
Cat
and
"Do you remember your entry speed and how many degrees of nose up pitch you needed before starting the roll?
I shudder to think of the exit airspeed when recovering from inverted a B18 on floats would attain if the entry were botched."
Cat
You make it sound ok to be rolling B18 on floats and that that guy was not a fool.
Just my thoughs. But then again what do I know.
PT6
He noticed it DURING THE TOW? Walk-around, anyone? What in ***'s name was he looking for? You're supposed to do more than just count wings, or notice there aren't any engines, especially if you share the a/c. Let us know his name and I'll send in a Darwin award nomination on his behalf.
Now not only is the machine busted on a Sunday morning but I've had to read that one.......
Now not only is the machine busted on a Sunday morning but I've had to read that one.......
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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Cat Driver
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PT6...
I don't quite know what your issues with me are but let me clear up some for you.
You said:
" You make it sound ok to be rolling B18 on floats and that that guy was not a fool.
Just my thoughs. But then again what do I know.
PT6 "
That is your own opinion, however is it not possible that I was only wondering about the issue of how he entered the roll? given the description of the entry and exit attitudes?
Nowhere did I show that I approve of aerobatics in non certified aeroplanes.
With regard to the PBY..ditto, nowhere did I indicate that I was doing aerobatics on several occasions when I was close to death in one, remember I water bombed for fifteen years in them including the Mountains of North and South America and several times the airplane was out of control due to heat turbulence caused by the intensity of the fires and being in mountainous terrain..
Cat
I don't quite know what your issues with me are but let me clear up some for you.
You said:
" You make it sound ok to be rolling B18 on floats and that that guy was not a fool.
Just my thoughs. But then again what do I know.
PT6 "
That is your own opinion, however is it not possible that I was only wondering about the issue of how he entered the roll? given the description of the entry and exit attitudes?
Nowhere did I show that I approve of aerobatics in non certified aeroplanes.
With regard to the PBY..ditto, nowhere did I indicate that I was doing aerobatics on several occasions when I was close to death in one, remember I water bombed for fifteen years in them including the Mountains of North and South America and several times the airplane was out of control due to heat turbulence caused by the intensity of the fires and being in mountainous terrain..
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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captain-Dudley
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My Point Exactly!!Cat Driver wrote:" and a 150/150A cannot sustain inverted flight. (not to mention the lack of power/thrust) "
CD, The Aerobat is stressed for inverted flight to 3 G's however any sustained inverted flight will be without power because it does not have an inverted system for the engine.
Cat
CD
