jazz FO

[massey1]

We had a jazz F/O in the jumpseat from YYC to YYZ this morning and was kind enough once airborne to tell us exactly the future of the emb fleet. According to our new friend all the embs are going to jazz in exchange for the assurance that our DB pension plan will remain intact. Also we were told by this F/O that our senior members will vote this through and will sell us out. I politely explained to him that in fact we are two seperate companies and the only thing that binds us is a cpa agreement. im not sure where the jazz guys are getting this rumour from but it was ultimately dismissed as being false by an ACPA official on a private forum. I wasnt so much upset by the comments but rather by the conduct of this F/O. we were kind enough to give him a ride to YYZ and this individual basically used the opportunity to stir the pot with us. Where do the Jazz pilots get this sense of entitlement to ride our jumpseat when they dont even work for Air Canada. After landing the Captain basically thanked the Jazz F/o for his input on internal ACPA divide and the fate of our jobs. Ive emailed a our ACPA jumseat rep. with this Jazz F/Os name.

[countryhick]

As a Jazz pilot, please accept an apology on behalf of my coworker. His actions were both unprofessional and uncalled for.
Feel free to pm the details to me and I will forward them to our jump seat rep also if you wish.

Lets keep the politics out of the pointy end!!

[Go Guns]

As a Jazz pilot, please accept an apology on behalf of my coworker. His actions were both unprofessional and uncalled for.

Lets keep the politics out of the pointy end!!

X2

[Plim Sole]

Seeing as ACPA does not run AC..... although they seem to like to think they do....
How do they know if the rumour is true or not?
Of course they are going to tell the pilot group that the EMBs are safe!!!!!

[Jaques Strappe]

Seeing as ACPA does not run AC..... although they seem to like to think they do....
How do they know if the rumour is true or not?
Of course they are going to tell the pilot group that the EMBs are safe!!!!!

We have a pretty good idea that the rumor is total BS because there is no way that the senior guys could collect enough votes to flush 60 narrow bodies from the fleet, even if they wanted to. Particularly when it is pretty apparent that a DB plan cannot be secured for anytime beyond the collective agreement. This F/O must think that everyone is as stupid as he is. BTW, nothing is particularly safe.

Everyone is always welcome in my flight deck but I will say that if I get a guy in my seat and he starts into this shit, In the interest of flight safety, I will be diverting the aircraft to kick him out. The fall out from that should put a stop to it, once and for all.

[Jastapilot]

Seeing as ACPA does not run AC..... although they seem to like to think they do....
How do they know if the rumour is true or not?
Of course they are going to tell the pilot group that the EMBs are safe!!!!!

We have a pretty good idea that the rumor is total BS because there is no way that the senior guys could collect enough votes to flush 60 narrow bodies from the fleet, even if they wanted to. Particularly when it is pretty apparent that a DB plan cannot be secured for anytime beyond the collective agreement. This F/O must think that everyone is as stupid as he is. BTW, nothing is particularly safe.

Everyone is always welcome in my flight deck but I will say that if I get a guy in my seat and he starts into this shit, In the interest of flight safety, I will be diverting the aircraft to kick him out. The fall out from that should put a stop to it, once and for all.

I can just imagine the headlines from something like that.

[Jaques Strappe]

Yeah Jasta, after the culprit finds himself stranded in Sioux Lookout, he can read about his plight in the Globe and Mail.

It would bring the issue front and center which is something none of us truly wants to happen. As a result, for the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would enter a flight deck, accept the graciousness of a crew offering the seat, then start into a political debate knowing full well, they are doing nothing but stirring the pot in an attempt to bait the issue, distract the flight crew from their duties and quite possibly create an issue that jeopardizes the safety of the flight. Regardless of who it is, or who they work for, they tarnish their fellow pilot and I have no tolerance for that unprofessional bullshit.

I hope that these instances get reported and tracked on both sides and culprits lose their travel benefits mainly because it has been going on for at least 14 years now. There is no room for this nonsense in the flight decks. 911 took away much of our flight deck liberties and now we have a few assholes who are still willing to risk what we have left.


One way or another, for anyone who pulls that shit on my flight deck, I will do my best to make sure it was their last ride.

[RFN]

Not again.

This F/O does not represent the rest of us, but we'll apologize anyways.

Dammit, what's the matter with people?

[teacher]

trust me when I say jokers like that do not represent the other 99% of us Jazz pilots. Every company has them, if you ignore them they usually go away.

[Brick Head]

Another 600 jobs subject to CPA renewals in Canada? Another 600 jobs that can be placed anywhere AC desires come renewal time? Another 600 jobs essentially left to go to whom ever will do it cheapest?

Yup that sounds like a smart idea.

Apparently there is still a lot of ignorance floating around as to what it means for our professions future in Canada, now that AC is using the CPA model for regional service.

I can assure you ACPA is not that stupid.

[B767300]

One bad apple and not a very bright one either. Thankfully the vast majority of jumpseaters are clued in.
Doesn't change my attitude to the masses - welcome in my jumpseat anytime!
Rick

[El Comat]

As a Jazz pilot that relies on airplanes to get to work, this makes my blood boil. Massey1, I'll be putting a post on our ALPA board giving some insight as to what a few dorks are saying when given the PRIVILEDGE of riding in someone's jumpseat (your incident in particular). Hopefully we (99% of the Jazz pilots who aren't dorks) can help eliminate this kind of childish behaviour. As many have posted on here already, please accept our apologies on behalf of our colleague.

EC

[JazzJetDriver]

"We had a jazz F/O in the jumpseat from YYC to YYZ this morning and was kind enough once airborne to tell us exactly the future of the emb fleet."

Just imagine if this came to pass...Oh My Heavens!!!

[PC12flyer]

Idiots like this are the reason we're so divided in the first place. Man it irritates me when I see stuff like this posted. I have heard the rumours just as much as every other Jazz guy. I however have a head on my shoulders and see that it's most likely a rumour being started by some disgruntled Air Ontario guy who hates Air Canada with a passion for some perceived wrong doing 15 years ago before I even decided I wanted to be a pilot. It's these idiots that make us all look bad and at the end of the day make it harder for pilots anywhere to respect us. I for one don't want the embraer's here. I believe that precidence has been set with U.S. Airways. For all Jazz pilots who may have some pipe dream of stealing the EMB's, THE EMB190's ARE THE NEW DC-9's! GET OVER IT! They're a mainline bird, and mainline guys will fly them. END OF STORY! The sad thing is that if I ever got a call for an interview at mainline, I am concerned that idiots like this will get me painted with a tainted brush and screw my chances even though I'm a good guy, with a sane head on my shoulders. You know what, I hope that you send El Comat the name of the idiot so he can follow up with ALPA's jump seat committee. Man I'm mad, it's 7:00pm on a Sunday night and now I need a beer! Happy flying boys and girls, and to every Mainline guy who ever gave me the privledge of riding their jump seat when I was a commuter! THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!

[Plim Sole]

Easy there PC12Flyer...... take one of those chill pills or have another beer.
No ones accusing anyone of stealing EMBs!!!!
Has it ever crossed your mind that the original thread might have been a fishing expedition to stir up some anti Jazz sentiment?
Not saying it was but on an anonymous forum the possibility does exist.

Out of interest... why would you hate to see the EMBs at Jazz? You would be in the minority, most (pilots at Jazz) would love to see them there.

[B767300]

Two separate topics in this thread:

Bringing up a sensitive issue when jumpseating on the competition.

and

The rumour that EMB's are going to Jazz.

....two very different issues!

[Localizer]

This thread is kind of pointless ... We know there are morons out there ... their everywhere ... but this in particular, for the most part would only feed into his narcissistic behaviour.

The more we pay attention .. the more he'll offend ..



Loc

[PC12flyer]

Why don't I want to see the EMB's come to Jazz.

1st reason is I have a lot of very good friends who are currently flying the machine there. If the EMB's were to come to Jazz, they would potentially lose their jobs and be forced to look for temporary work elsewhere.

Second, if Jazz were to get the EMB's it would most likely be at a lower pay scale than that which the mainline boys and girls currently have.

So my question to you is this, why would I want to "steal" a job from my friend so that he ends up unemployed, just so that I can move up a seniority list to do the same job he did but for less money?

If Jazz were to end up with the EMB's, it is my opinion that it will increase our profession's downward spiral towards the bottom. If we were to be given an airplane from mainline, what is stopping Georgian from taking our Dash 8 flying and doing it for cheaper. Think about it, if we continue to willingly work for less money just to get a shiny new airplane on the lot, the companies will have us by the short and curly's.

Since if this were to happen I only see this ending badly for the us and the next generation of pilots. At what point are you willing to say, enough is enough. Making $36k/yr flying an RJ or Dash is criminal, however I knew what I was getting into when I signed on the dotted line. I just think that now that I have made it to a career job I owe it to myself and the next generation to try to stop the downward pressure on our wages and working conditions. My two cents... flame away.

[Plim Sole]

PC12Flyer... all valid points that you raise. I certainly will not be flaming you!
I think stealing is a little harsh. IF, the AC Board of Directors were to ask Jazz to operate the EMBs then so be it. Jazz would not have stolen anything. Likewise we did not 'steal' the RJs or Dash. So the Dash might go to CMA or Georgian? Big deal, its the way of the aviation world. A few years ago a typical charter company might have been happy with a PA31 and a King Air 200. Now that same company wants King Airs, Jets and Dash 8s for it charter business. Jazz would in this case have EMBS and CRJs.

People losing jobs and protecting the future of future pilots is a slippery slope and one I'm not going to launch myself down tonight!!!!

Anyway, enough with this EMB to Jazz stuff.

And for the record, if that Jazz F/O does exist and he did say what is claimed, then he needs to be taken around the back of a hangar so that he can give someone a damn good listening to!!!

I think we might have hijacked this thread a little too much so count me out

[JazzJetDriver]

PC12FLYER,

Chill man, there are drugs that will ease your situation of distress. You have obviously misplaced your sense of humour, or you never had one...

[Old fella]

At least you can take a decent piss in the EMB can, something that is quite difficult in a CRJ-200. Don't think the travelling public gives a rats ass who operates what............ just get us threre with minium delay, affordable fares(enough included so you can make a profit) and don't loose our baggage.

[Chuck Yeagermister]

I agree with PC12Flyer 100%. Jazz getting EMBs then doing the flying at sub pair wages is only adding to the destruction of the profession. Why dont ppl see this, look at the United States.

[CanadianEh]

I agree with PC12Flyer 100%. Jazz getting EMBs then doing the flying at sub pair wages is only adding to the destruction of the profession. Why dont ppl see this, look at the United States.

+99999

[Localizer]

I agree with PC12Flyer 100%. Jazz getting EMBs then doing the flying at sub pair wages is only adding to the destruction of the profession. Why dont ppl see this, look at the United States.

Isn't the opposite true aswell? .. Shouldn't something be done to help the Jazz pilots get there wages up? Or is that a "taboo" suggestion? We bitch when something might affect us .. but then tell the other guys that its tough luck and there's nothing we can do about it. Sheesh ... all about me syndrome ... hope they find a cure for that one day.

[Dockjock]

Jazz pilots have a simple way of raising their wages, the same way every single AC pilot raised theirs; apply at a company that pays more! This notion that AC pilots are somehow spawned at the bottom of the list is pretty ignorant. I was working at a tier III regional prior to AC, I didn't want to be there for life, so I applied somewhere that offered better conditions. Really, it is that basic.

PC12 driver you got it figured.