ORNGE?

[Doc]

ng78, the part that pisses me off so much is the fact that money up front is required by some pretty good companies. Bearskin has been in the business long enough to hang onto drivers. So has Wasaya and VAL. Just proves my point that Ornge is just another shit hole. Just a rich one.
I'm joining the bear with a letter to my MPP.

[NorthSky]

TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS UP FRONT!!!!!!!!

JUST ANOTHER MAGGOT COMPANY! TOLD YOU SO!!!!!

LET'S RAISE THE BAR!!!!

Really Brown? where'd you confirm that? Is that capts and FOs?

Here it is:

[Doc]

Well, there you have it. In black and white. Still thing Ornge has "raised the bar"?

[Donald]

What a pile of crap.

First off, handing over a cheque for 10K is just plain stupid, maybe MAYBE one could agree to the promissary note in point #4.

Secondly, in these contracts, notice the protection is always slanted 100% in the companies favour. There are no employment conditions specified. No job description, salary, working conditions etc etc. If the company decides that despite your status as a PC12 pilot, you will spend 50% of your time working as a rampie, too bad. If your hours decrease for some reason, and you lose money as a result, well too bad. If they decide to force you to move after a couple of months to a different base, well too bad.

I realize it's only a year, and that some less-than-ethical pilots have tarnished the reputation for most, but make sure you think of all the possibilites and consequences when you consider something as dumb as this.

[Cat Driver]

WOW...

.....I can hardly believe what I have read, if only the news media would do a public interest story on how the industry gets pilots bent over with such a one sided contract.

How about the safety factor on these tax payer funded airplanes, how safe can a crew be if things get to the point a pilot wants to leave or thinks they may be forced to leave, wouldn't that affect their performance?

Rick Potter, huh.

Anyone here know him?

[fingersmac]

From their website:

Rick Potter
Rick Potter brings to Ornge an extensive background in aviation. While attending Lakehead University Rick also flew as a bush pilot throughout Northern Ontario and along the shores of Hudson and James Bay. After graduating Rick joined Transport Canada where he began as an air traffic controller before moving into air traffic control management. Prior to joining Ornge Rick was the Dean of the Aviation Centre at Confederation College.

[fingersmac]

I noticed that they won't even cover your interest if you need to take out a loan, which I would imagine most people would. They'll reimburse the $10K with 2% interest at the one year mark! Good luck getting a $10K loan at 2% interest.

[pilot21]

This bond only applies to pilots without pc12 time. If you have time on machine NO BOND. Just wanted to ensure this was clear. Ornge has been top notch to me thus far and I look forward to flying for them.

[Doc]

This bond only applies to pilots without pc12 time. If you have time on machine NO BOND. Just wanted to ensure this was clear. Ornge has been top notch to me thus far and I look forward to flying for them.

Looking forward to flying for a company who calls pilots in for two interviews, makes no mention of any bond, then sends a "bill for 10K" with an "offer" of employment? These guys are total maggots. I really hope you'll be real happy there. Nobody working there deserves any respect from the rest of us. Don't expect any.

[Cat Driver]

This bond only applies to pilots without pc12 time. If you have time on machine NO BOND. Just wanted to ensure this was clear. Ornge has been top notch to me thus far and I look forward to flying for them.

It seems you have PC12 time so you do not need to give the government $10,000.00 to work for them, how are you going to feel looking at one of your crew mates sitting beside you who didn't have PC12 time knowing he/she has had to pay all that money just to sit beside you?

[Doc]

This bond only applies to pilots without pc12 time. If you have time on machine NO BOND. Just wanted to ensure this was clear. Ornge has been top notch to me thus far and I look forward to flying for them.

It seems you have PC12 time so you do not need to give the government $10,000.00 to work for them, how are you going to feel looking at one of your crew mates sitting beside you who didn't have PC12 time knowing he/she has had to pay all that money just to sit beside you?

Like he going to give a crap?

[Cat Driver]

Like he going to give a crap?

Lets see what kind of an answer I get from pilot21 Doc.

[Rudy]

Sad. You have to wonder how the pilots are going to be treated when the first thing they do is put them through this. A company that asks for cash up front is expecting many people to leave for something better after a very short time period. Ask yourself why.

[Cat Driver]

A company that asks for cash up front is expecting many people to leave for something better after a very short time period. Ask yourself why.

That is easy, to them you are less valuable than the hardware.

[Eleveniron]

Not to minimize the fact that there is a bond, but according to the contract it's not necessarily a cash payment...it may be a promisary note. Has anyone actually been asked to pay the cash rather than the promisary note?

[Just another canuck]

Not to minimize the fact that there is a bond, but according to the contract it's not necessarily a cash payment...it may be a promisary note. Has anyone actually been asked to pay the cash rather than the promisary note?

Yes it is. Page 1, Point 3. "The pilot shall pay..."

[2R]

Do the ORNGE Helicopter pilots sign a bond or pay up front ?

[Eleveniron]

Not to minimize the fact that there is a bond, but according to the contract it's not necessarily a cash payment...it may be a promisary note. Has anyone actually been asked to pay the cash rather than the promisary note?

Yes it is. Page 1, Point 3. "The pilot shall pay..."

Read point 4...

[Eleveniron]

Do the ORNGE Helicopter pilots sign a bond or pay up front ?

Ornge doesn't have heli pilots...Canadian Heli does. Not sure about them.

[2R]

I read somewhere that ORNGE had bought CHC helicopters and hangers.As well as ordering more helicopters to replace the ones they bought .

[Just another canuck]

Not to minimize the fact that there is a bond, but according to the contract it's not necessarily a cash payment...it may be a promisary note. Has anyone actually been asked to pay the cash rather than the promisary note?

Yes it is. Page 1, Point 3. "The pilot shall pay..."

Read point 4...

My apologies... just say you don't have the cash and maybe you can get away with it that way. Although if you say that to VAL, they walk in the bank with you. They don't co-sign the loan, but they give a "letter of intent" so to say that you will be employed, blah, blah, blah... then CIBC gives you cash.

Anyway, it says the discretion of the company... I take that as if they can't find any suckers to pay, then they'll resort to promissory notes. My guess is if you want to work there, then you're gonna pay.

And they're only paying you back with 2% interest per annum... you will definitely lose money on this if you have to borrow the cash. At least VAL, Wasaya and The Bear pay you back whatever interest has accumulated.

[Eleveniron]

My apologies... just say you don't have the cash and maybe you can get away with it that way. Although if you say that VAL, they walk in the bank with you. They don't co-sign the loan, but they give a "letter of intent" so to say that you will be employed, blah, blah, blah... then CIBC gives you cash.

Anyway, it says the discretion of the company... I take that as if they can't find any suckers to pay, then they'll resort to promissory notes. My guess is if you want to work there, then you're gonna pay.

Definately leaves the door open for them to "negotiate"...depending on how bad they want you and who's left to choose from. Either way...I wouldn't sign the thing.

[Eleveniron]

I read somewhere that ORNGE had bought CHC helicopters and hangers.As well as ordering more helicopters to replace the ones they bought .

I believe CHC will be operating the agustas and phasing out the sikorskys

[pilot21]

I feel for all the guys that will have to sign a bond. I had to do the same not too long ago. Unfortunately that is part of the business and if you want on the wheel you will have to play the game. A 1 year commitment is not too much to ask I think. If you were planning on leaving before that time than this would not be the job for you anyways. Again Doc and Cat I see the point you are making but don't ask me to feel sorry for the other guy. We have all been there.

[Cat Driver]

We have all been there.

You are obviously relatively new to aviation because I never ever paid for any training...ever.

This pay for training thing started because to many pilots were getting training and then quitting to go somewhere else long before the companies got their investments back.

So the bottom line is the pilots did it to themselves.