UWO's BMOS - Commercial Aviation Management

[ToFlyIsDivine]

Graduates of the Commercial Aviation Management Program who select the flight training option will be licensed to fly commercial aircraft and be ready to assume management responsibilities, both on the ground and in the air.

Graduates can look forward to rewarding careers in airport and airline management, as well as employment as pilots for private or commercial airlines.

Some of our graduates graduate to become:
Air Law Specialists
AC Pilots
AC Jazz Pilots
Air Canada Jazz Management
CF Fighter Pilot
Cathay Pacific Pilot
Cathay Pacific Management
Transport Canada
Industry Canada
...Just to name a few....

Okay I have a few problems with these chunks in the ad. If you are targeting High School kids who have a small incentive about aviation and want to fly, the way this program was put through awareness is manipulating.

To the general public, "Commercial Aircraft" / Commercial Airplanes are the big jets that people fly on for vacations and business trips; they don't know that a simple C172 can be a commercial aircraft as well, because they probably don't even know what the definition of an aircraft is.

Graduates can look forward to employment as pilots for .... "commercial airlines." The assumption the general public who will be "interested" in this program get is that as soon as they're done training, Air Canada or an airline of the same infrastructure will hire them. These kids have probably not written TC tests yet and won't pay attention to tricky words such as "looking forward." However, in the context you have written this ad, "looking forward" seems like when they start in the first year, they will "look forward" to being employed as pilots for Commercial Airlines.

Some of our graduates graduate to become (the list of the airlines down there). That's a big fat No No, except for Jazz which normally looks into Seneca, and maybe Cathay who puts you into their Cadet Program to redo it all, no body that I know of will hire those graduates right off the bat. Also, let's say Cathay does hire them; in the ad, it seems like it's such an easy process. What about HKG residency? Chinese Medical? Conversions ... you make the ad seem as if they have many possibilities as low time pilots while when they face reality, they don't. It normally will boil down to instructing or going up north.

Maybe your assumption wasn't to promote the idea that they can get into airlines as soon as they graduate, but to the avid 17 year old who is planning his future, he will get the idea that he will be able to fly jets for Air Canada in 4 years. Not a fair way to manipulate students to join the program. You need to specify that after the program is done, they have opportunities to fly as commercial pilots in PROGRESSION TO airlines. Then list what a few of those opportunities are, such as.

- Instructing
- Working on The Ramp
- Flying Bush Planes

Etc...


Thought I would point that out.

Cheers

good point, thanks for the heads up, I'll get that changed right away.

[ummba]

this sounds like an interesting alternative, could you PM me more info?

[ToFlyIsDivine]

check your pm ummba

[danial]

hey i was wondering can anyone give me more info on this program...want to get into it realli badly...is it really hard to get in? Do alot of people apply? What if you have a 80% average on the dot will you get in? i read somewhere thy only except 50 people is tht true?

[Stevo226]

hey i was wondering can anyone give me more info on this program...want to get into it realli badly...is it really hard to get in? Do alot of people apply? What if you have a 80% average on the dot will you get in? i read somewhere thy only except 50 people is tht true?

Wow.

You have obviously not read this forum at all, saw the title and decided to post a question. You won't get very far in Aviation by reading a book by it's cover

[danial]

just because u think aviation is a waste of time doesn't mean that no one else can be interested in it...i actually read some of this thread and the guy that started it looks very enthusiastic about being at western and i think it would also be a great experiance

[CanadianEh]

just because u think aviation is a waste of time doesn't mean that no one else can be interested in it...i actually read some of this thread and the guy that started it looks very enthusiastic about being at western and i think it would also be a great experiance

Hey Danial,
They only accept 60 students a year. Did you apply to the program? I got in with a 90% average, I'm not sure what the cut off is.

[shinysuitman]

I hope they dont mind bad Gr.11 marks. Just curious, how did you do in 11?

[danial]

can anyone tht goes to western tell me wht courses they took in grad 12...and if i have a 80 % average would i be able to get in...is the course really competative to get into...thnks realli appriciated

[Slappy the Squirrel]

I had a friend who wanted to be a pilot, and started out at Western for a year. He hated it and said it was the biggest waste of money for him. He didn't like the fact that he went to school for a year and never touched an airplane. Now I don't have a university degree, so I'm probably not smart enough to comment, but it's hard to train a really good pilot unless they're actually put into an airplane.
In any case he found he wasn't motivated and although he passed all his courses he quit the school after 2 semesters, and went to Con College and had a blast.

If you want to be involved in the non-flying side of aviation, I'm sure this is a great program, no doubt about it. However, if you want to be a pilot save yourself some time and money and go get in an airplane.

[Thunderstrike]

I had a friend who wanted to be a pilot, and started out at Western for a year. He hated it and said it was the biggest waste of money for him. He didn't like the fact that he went to school for a year and never touched an airplane. Now I don't have a university degree, so I'm probably not smart enough to comment, but it's hard to train a really good pilot unless they're actually put into an airplane.
In any case he found he wasn't motivated and although he passed all his courses he quit the school after 2 semesters, and went to Con College and had a blast.

If you want to be involved in the non-flying side of aviation, I'm sure this is a great program, no doubt about it. However, if you want to be a pilot save yourself some time and money and go get in an airplane.

I beg to disagree. The program isn't for everyone, but as the same time it has been clearly stated up front that the flying portion of the program does not start until the second year.

Many people seem to forget that the program entails a full four year bachelor's degree in Management and Organizational Studies (basically business) and are surprised when they encounter the work that is required. I see the non-flying first year as an advantage to the program. Transitioning to University workloads can be difficult enough for alot of people without adding PPL ground school and flying to the mix. The first year gives students a good opportunity to ease their way into university and get their footing. Likewise it also gives some the opportunity to decide whether they actually want to be in university without getting tied up in the flying.

I'll be the first to state that if all you want to do is fly and have no interest in a tertiary education then DO NOT go to university.....ANY university. It will be a waste of money if you don't have the motivation to do well.

However, if you do want to get a degree and are willing to do the work then the Western program offers a (near) complete package.

The professors are really good, willing to help and the education provided is top notch. Also, the time management skills and professional attitudes that are developed from having to balance flying with (often unrelated) course work are great assets. I am in my third year and I'm starting to hear people who have been in the industry for decades commenting on how well we carry ourselves and the professional attitude we have (Not that we really notice ourselves, but I'll take the compliment ).

And on top of all that, Western is just an awesome school. The opportunities to get involved and pick up actual management and leadership experience are endless, and if/when you have time for the nightlife its always good times.

You have to be coming here for the right reasons though. I have a few friends who switched out of the flying portion or the program altogether because it was not for them. You'll get out of this program what you put into it.....and often even more, but you have to want to be here.

I know this is starting to sound like an infomercial, but I'm just giving an honest opinion so bear with me. This is not a program where you just get your licenses and go flying. That can be done for much cheaper elsewhere. It's an opportunity to get a tertiary education, gain valuable experience, meet some really cool people, and grow as a person. IMO that's worth the extra money. I'm not knocking any other programs though. I believe that they all have something unique to offer students, as does Western. Regardless of price, if you're not willing to put effort in, then no program is worth the money.

Just thought it needed saying.

Cheers

**edited for grammar

[ToFlyIsDivine]

Love the productive opinions, keep them coming!!!

[SuperchargedRS]

Degrees are EXCELLENT back up plans, you can use them to keep you warm at night!

[mcrit]

Degrees are EXCELLENT back up plans, you can use them to keep you warm at night!

...that fella's hat looks purple.....

[delpmk2]

Sault, Confederation and Western Ontario are all good schools..
Each school has both good things and bad things..
So, I think... It's up to your choice and interest.
Find the program that fits to you.. If you go to a school that does not fit to you, you won't be very successful even if you
go to the school that has really good reputation/program. There will be some people who like this program but there are also be some people who don't like this program and so.. I think.. you can't just say 'this program is the best' or 'that program is the best'.. I don't really understand why people here try to harm each other.

[SuperchargedRS]

Some things go well together, like hot women and a kiddie pool filled with jello

Some things dont, like college and flying.

Dont forget the FBO route, the only benefit to the college way is the govt. paying for some of it, the quality of the FLYING I believe will always be lower then a FBO. But to each there own

[Tango01]

Save your money, go to USA, train there, come back convert. Get a degree/diploma part time on the side and your're good to go. Why would anyone spend money on this shitty program???

[SuperchargedRS]

Save your money, go to USA, train there, come back convert. Get a degree/diploma part time on the side and your're good to go. Why would anyone spend money on this shitty program???

x2

[sepia]

Some things go well together, like hot women and a kiddie pool filled with jello

Some things dont, like college and flying.

Dont forget the FBO route, the only benefit to the college way is the govt. paying for some of it, the quality of the FLYING I believe will always be lower then a FBO. But to each there own

That's the first time in my 10 years reading this site that anyone has ever gone so far as to suggest a "FBO" will train to a higher standard than a college.

This is hilarious to me on so many levels. First, a FBO is the place you go to get fuel, maybe make a meal out of their popcorn on a 3am medivac. Yes, sometimes flight schools are associated with the FBO, but the FBO doesn't do the training.

Second, are you so short sighted as to not seeing the benefits associated with the top college programs? How could learning more about your chosen career not be better? Unless you're one of the very few people who can read through massive amounts of books, and not have any questions, being taught is the way to go.

Third, at Sault and Confed the government doesn't pay for some of it. They pay for absolutely all of it. You also get unlimited sim time in the nicest sims in the country. If that alone isn't worth the extra year, while the industry is totally stagnant I might add, I don't know what is.

Fourth, unless you aspire to end your career in the 704 world (which is totally fine); most major airlines will give preferential treatment to someone with an aviation diploma from one of the established aviation colleges. The Air Canada award given at the colleges infact, assures the top student an interview when you meet the minimum requirements. Don't imagine your local FBO has that type of connection with the airlines.

Fifth, the typical private school argument that it's quicker is moot. The three youngest people on my AC class all had attended aviation college. So to think that somehow getting your cpl done in the absolute minimum time will assure you the quickest road is again, short sighted thinking at best. What's the point of being first one to start as a flight instructor, when the guys who finish later win the race?


All of that said, I'm not trying to be all elitist here and say the college way is the only way. I'm just trying to counter your truly uninformed post with the other side of the story. Unfortunately the massively expensive UWO and Waterloo programs still are in their infancy, and lack government funding. So I'd stay away from them.

[Thunderstrike]

Sault, Confederation and Western Ontario are all good schools..
Each school has both good things and bad things..
So, I think... It's up to your choice and interest.
Find the program that fits to you.. If you go to a school that does not fit to you, you won't be very successful even if you
go to the school that has really good reputation/program. There will be some people who like this program but there are also be some people who don't like this program and so.. I think.. you can't just say 'this program is the best' or 'that program is the best'.. I don't really understand why people here try to harm each other.

Exactly.

I really don't think there's any good or bad......It's just what you make of it. People from pretty much every background have taken many different routes and have become successful, professional pilots.

Going to the states to fly while getting a diploma on the side is probably a great idea......if it suits your fancy.

Then again, so would going to university if that's what you wanted to do.

I don't get why anyone would want to bash any organization / program / group which is trying to be the best at what it does.
We are all here because we love aviation....or say we do. There's alot of cynicism on this forum and I can only imagine the effect it would have on someone considering a career in aviation. While we must be realistic, is it really necessary to be overly negative? Then again....what do I know? I'm just starting out right?

The UWO program is excellent for what it is IMHO. I am getting way more out of it than I expected....on both the flying and academic sides. I'm also very impressed with the dedication our faculty have shown to maintaining quality while constantly looking for ways to do things better.
That said, I am kinda the academic type. University is my thing right now and I feel like I'm in the right place. I know some people who can't wait to just finish and get out. Maybe a different route would have been better for them.

Point is.....EVERY route is prefect as long as it's what you want to do, you're happy with it, and it gets you where you're going.

So let's discuss the CAM program here, and if you want to talk about the merits of another program / route, start another thread....but for the love of all that's good could we stop with the bashing?

It helps no one.

TS

[VikVaughan]

That's the first time in my 10 years reading this site that anyone has ever gone so far as to suggest a "FBO" will train to a higher standard than a college.

This is hilarious to me on so many levels. First, a FBO is the place you go to get fuel, maybe make a meal out of their popcorn on a 3am medivac. Yes, sometimes flight schools are associated with the FBO, but the FBO doesn't do the training.

Second, are you so short sighted as to not seeing the benefits associated with the top college programs? How could learning more about your chosen career not be better? Unless you're one of the very few people who can read through massive amounts of books, and not have any questions, being taught is the way to go.

Third, at Sault and Confed the government doesn't pay for some of it. They pay for absolutely all of it. You also get unlimited sim time in the nicest sims in the country. If that alone isn't worth the extra year, while the industry is totally stagnant I might add, I don't know what is.

Fourth, unless you aspire to end your career in the 704 world (which is totally fine); most major airlines will give preferential treatment to someone with an aviation diploma from one of the established aviation colleges. The Air Canada award given at the colleges infact, assures the top student an interview when you meet the minimum requirements. Don't imagine your local FBO has that type of connection with the airlines.

Fifth, the typical private school argument that it's quicker is moot. The three youngest people on my AC class all had attended aviation college. So to think that somehow getting your cpl done in the absolute minimum time will assure you the quickest road is again, short sighted thinking at best. What's the point of being first one to start as a flight instructor, when the guys who finish later win the race?


All of that said, I'm not trying to be all elitist here and say the college way is the only way. I'm just trying to counter your truly uninformed post with the other side of the story. Unfortunately the massively expensive UWO and Waterloo programs still are in their infancy, and lack government funding. So I'd stay away from them.

Sepia, save your energy.

SuperchargedBS is just a bitter kid who flunked out of Confederation college and now has a massive chip on his shoulder regarding colleges. Of his hundred and something posts, a good portion are him trolling in threads about aviation colleges.

A quick search reveals his progression:

Newest
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49295&p=473052#p473052
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50782&p=491442#p491442
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39491&p=413145#p413145
(He got the boot around here)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37090&p=358087#p358087
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35194&p=340007#p340007
Older

Sore loser.

[sepia]

Vik: I should have guessed, thanks!

[SuperchargedRS]

That's the first time in my 10 years reading this site that anyone has ever gone so far as to suggest a "FBO" will train to a higher standard than a college.

Second, are you so short sighted as to not seeing the benefits associated with the top college programs? How could learning more about your chosen career not be better? Unless you're one of the very few people who can read through massive amounts of books, and not have any questions, being taught is the way to go.

Third, at Sault and Confed the government doesn't pay for some of it. They pay for absolutely all of it. You also get unlimited sim time in the nicest sims in the country. If that alone isn't worth the extra year, while the industry is totally stagnant I might add, I don't know what is.


All of that said, I'm not trying to be all elitist here and say the college way is the only way. I'm just trying to counter your truly uninformed post with the other side of the story. Unfortunately the massively expensive UWO and Waterloo programs still are in their infancy, and lack government funding. So I'd stay away from them.

Sepia, save your energy.

SuperchargedBS is just a bitter kid who flunked out of Confederation college and now has a massive chip on his shoulder regarding colleges. Of his hundred and something posts, a good portion are him trolling in threads about aviation colleges.

A quick search reveals his progression:

Newest
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49295&p=473052#p473052
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50782&p=491442#p491442
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39491&p=413145#p413145
(He got the boot around here)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37090&p=358087#p358087
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35194&p=340007#p340007
Older

Sore loser.

They pay for all of it, wow someone should call the OPP on the college, because you do have to pay tuition, meal plan, res, etc... so the govt does not pay for ALL of it and most people end up needing a loan.

Next I think that learning how to fly somewhere that will tailor your training to you will produce a better end result, I did all my training in a taildragger and floats, try that at a college. If you want to do everything in a (fill in the blank) you can. Heck you could do almost all your commercial hours on a glider if you wanted to (might be a good idea too). You want to go airlines, go do all your training on a multi, probably do better then the guy that has a bull cit degree gold bars and 172 time.
By the way this uninformed guy has more marketable experience going the private route, I'll take the Pepsi challenge with any college kid.

Now on to me being being a "sore loser", It is my opinion that some of these colleges are a chit show. Anywhere where people with a REAL college degree and who IMMEDAITLY go on and have a good aptitude for flying more sensitive aircraft dont do well, where others that don't have the hands for flying (or as in the news lately the mental state) are told they are the next AC capt.s... well.

There are some benefits to these programs, dont get me wrong, but I would not recommend this type of program (as I am sure my "fan club" here can tell you).

If I get ripped off I dont forget, I am not very Canadian in the bend over and take it aspect. Once someone (or some college / policy / whatever) gets on my chit list, thats that and I will make my opinion known.

Now as far as being called a loser by Mr. I have no friggin life, so I search every post where I said anything about Colleges, here is concerned; all I can say is go get laid and fly a damn plane, doubt you get much stick time in ether way lol

[VikVaughan]

[sepia]

They pay for all of it, wow someone should call the OPP on the college, because you do have to pay tuition, meal plan, res, etc... so the govt does not pay for ALL of it and most people end up needing a loan.

Next I think that learning how to fly somewhere that will tailor your training to you will produce a better end result, I did all my training in a taildragger and floats, try that at a college. If you want to do everything in a (fill in the blank) you can. Heck you could do almost all your commercial hours on a glider if you wanted to (might be a good idea too). You want to go airlines, go do all your training on a multi, probably do better then the guy that has a bull cit degree gold bars and 172 time.
By the way this uninformed guy has more marketable experience going the private route, I'll take the Pepsi challenge with any college kid.

Now on to me being being a "sore loser", It is my opinion that some of these colleges are a chit show. Anywhere where people with a REAL college degree and who IMMEDAITLY go on and have a good aptitude for flying more sensitive aircraft dont do well, where others that don't have the hands for flying (or as in the news lately the mental state) are told they are the next AC capt.s... well.

There are some benefits to these programs, dont get me wrong, but I would not recommend this type of program (as I am sure my "fan club" here can tell you).

If I get ripped off I dont forget, I am not very Canadian in the bend over and take it aspect. Once someone (or some college / policy / whatever) gets on my chit list, thats that and I will make my opinion known.

Now as far as being called a loser by Mr. I have no friggin life, so I search every post where I said anything about Colleges, here is concerned; all I can say is go get laid and fly a damn plane, doubt you get much stick time in ether way lol

Supercharged:

I have two questions for you.

1. Is English your first language?

2. Are you mentally retarded?

I believe an honest answer to each of my above questions will help put everything into perspective. Please feel free to answer honestly.