Transport Canada......are their pilots really that good?

[Squawking 7600]

I recently had a converstation with my captain about Transport Canada and how they continuously try and screw over pilots and their companies alike. Aren't we all in this together....we support Transport Canada and in return they support us...vice versa? Think of the entire industry as an ecosystem and how both parties (aviation companies and transport canada) cannot survive without one another. We need them...they need us. Why can't we work together on this...make things runs smoothly.

Why do we have to butt heads with them? Why can't we work together to make this industry a superior one? I realize their number one mandate is to make the industry as safe as possible for the public....but don't you people feel they sometimes go overboard with the red tape crap and try to shut an operation down because of something personal. Maybe when they were a starving pilot they didn't get hired on with a certain company and now hold a grudge towards such operators? Is this possible? Or maybe like all politicians...they are so worried about looking stupid they make rash descisions to make themselves look good in the public eye.

And furthermore.....I've heard many stories of how these Transport guys crash airplanes. I know of one occasion where the guy had a dual engine failure as he ran the outboards dry, panicked and forgot to switch from outboards to inboards, bypassed 2 or 3 suitable airports and glided the thing into a field, destroying the airplane.

Another time two transport guys landed gear up, smacked the blades on the runway, destoyed one engine, over shot the runway, climbed up on one engine, bypassed 2 or 3 suitable airports to get the thing back to their home airport...all on one engine....vibrating and rattling like a son of a B*%&$@. Wouldn't it have made sense to land as soon as possible at the runway they just landed at...instead of making the 40 mile trek across the city on half an engine?

So what happens to these guys...do they get investigated? Does Transport get investigated and shut down because of their training practises?

If Transport continues imposing so many crazy rules and regulations on operators and the insurance companies continue with their increases....there will not be an industry in the very near future. You think you work for free now....mark my words...it's only going to get worse.

Just a my rant for today....I'm usually a very positive person...especially towards this industry.

[hz2p]

Transport and the private sector have very different objectives.

Transport doesn't get paid more when more aviation occurs. In fact, it would be very convenient for Transport if aviation simply ceased to exist in Canada.

Transport wants to make sure it's not held responsible for anything, to go home early, and collect as large a pension from the taxpayer as soon as possible.

Transport Canada Avaition is a misnomer - it has very little to do with aviation, which is what the private sector does.

Transport issues pretty pieces of paper - as few of them as humanly possible. See above point about not being held responsible for anything.

Transport should really be named Transport Canada Paper.

[Cat Driver]

7600 :

Thats not a rant, it is reality.

I have spent over fifty years in this business as a mechanic/pilot and am no longer flying in Canada, it was not anything to do with my qualifications nor my past record in aviation which is accident and violation free..

..it was directly due to a couple of human scum at TC who chose to protect one of their own rather than ensure the quality of their regulatory duties to the industry...

The guy who drove their agenda to put me out of business was a loser who had a grudge against me before he went to TC, once he like all scum rose to the top he used his office for his own personal vendetta to screw me...

..So the bottom line in my experience in aviation is TC was the most dangerous factor I ever had to cope with and in the end it ruined my right to work in aviation in Canada.

Now 7600, there is a rant, and yes I am a very unhappy victim of the system.

. . ... AKA...Cat

[NoneSoBlind]

Those that can , do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, join Transport Canada and live out their life knowing they couldn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bede]

Do TC guys violate their own: Yep. I heard a story from an FSS guy in Prince George. A while back a TC helicopter forgot to close a flight plan. The FSS guy had him violated.

Good Riddance

[Rubberbiscuit]

Just read some of these stories from an earlier thread

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=5336

[HotelMode]

7600:

Regarding the running out of fuel and not switching tanks that was a very very long time ago (20yrs ??)

[Cat Driver]

Well well, HotelMode :

That was quite a rant, you wouldn't be employed by TC would you?

Because if you are I wouldn't let someone with your attitude anywhere near any airplane I was flying, and if you ramped me I would politely ask for your ID and shove it right up your ass.

So how do you like that opinion?

PS :

From your rant:

And yes TC does investigate

They never investigate their own, they cover for their own, it's part of the culture within TC. And anyone who thinks any different has to either be totally ignorant about how the system works or part of TC.

Cat

[Razor]

What would you do with your cane? Wouldn't you need 2 hands to do that?

[HotelMode]

It's fact, anyway just letting everyone know that these happen to industry too.

There are those that have and those that will, but the idea is not to let it happen.

[complexintentions]

HotelMode,

What are "Industry Pilots"? Are Transport pilots not in the industry? Or are there two sets of pilots, Transport pilots and Industry pilots? I hope not, because that would only reinforce the perception that there are two sets of standards...

Very insightful term.

And NavCanada (the FSS who violated the TC pilot) is not Transport Canada. Just because it was reported doesn't mean it was followed up on.

[Rubberbiscuit]

I think the moral inthis whole thread is this! We are all human and therefore we all make mistakes. The bad news is that if you work for a certain branch of TC you are virtually untouchable!

We need a system where you are not reporting someone, but something.... so we all can learn from others experiences, good or bad!

[HotelMode]

complexintentions:

Interesting thoughts, I only mentioned it that way to indicate the difference from TC to "air operators"
When I flew for "air operators" way back (in the late 70's & 80's) we refered to our selves as "industry pilots" it may only have been a local thing (like the "Sal's Nip" and only a few people will know that) but then speaking with everyone else on the radio and phones from across canada, everyone knew what we were speaking about.


but then if you only had a commercial lic. would you be considered a transport pilot? (just a play on words)

On another note: regarding infractions that are not reported/investigated, I can tell you that in certain regions things do happen and probably other regions nothing happens but the same thing happens to "air operator pilots, some infractions get investigated and unfortunately some do not.

[Vickers vanguard]

hotel mode ! maybe 7600 was reffering to a more recent accident when a TC DFTE was doing circuits with a student in a C310. Double engine failure due to fuel Starvation and crashed landed the airplane in a field.

[Hedley]

Last fall a Transport Canada Inspector illegally hand-propped a Champ with no one at the controls, no chocks, and it got away from him and it was destroyed. He's lucky no one was hurt.

Of course, no charges were laid. That's the way it is.

[Sasquash]

[quote]They never investigate their own, they cover for their own, it's part of the culture within TC. And anyone who thinks any different has to either be totally ignorant about how the system works or part of TC.

ahh, Cat Driver, I hate to burst your bubble, but according to Quicklaw website, under Civil Aviation Tribunal, if you search for Transport Canada inspectors, you'll see that there are several cases where TC inspectors were in fact sanctioned by TC and taken to the Tribunal at the review level. This particular website has a user fee, however with all the predicament you were involved with, I'm surprised you didn't have one of these legal search engines under your favorite icon to support your arguments...

[Cat Driver]

Well Sasquash you are not bursting my bubble......

"This particular website has a user fee, however with all the predicament you were involved with, I'm surprised you didn't have one of these legal search engines under your favorite icon to support your arguments..."

My issues with TC are not within the venue of the Civil Aviation Tribunal, early in my efforts to get an FTU I had asked the Tribunal for their intervention and they flatly informed me that my case had nothing to do with me being in violation of regulations, my case was missuse of power by top TC management.

The tribunal suggested that I needed a lawyer, which was one of the reasons I lost all my money and my business.

There may of course be cases where TC inspectors are charged with violations of regulations, however I defy you to produce one verifiable piece of evidence that TC will side with one of us the industry when one of their own is found to be abusing the power of their office, it just is not the way their system works...they will cover for their own even if it means being dishonest enough to make a common street criminal look good.

Cat

[HotelMode]

Re: Vickers vanguard

my appologies then as I have not heard that story of the DFTE on the C310, it sounded like the one I mentioned.

I thought a DFTE is appointed by TC to conduct check rides on behalf of TC. Hope they (DFTE) have lots of liability insurance or have at least checked with a lawyer to ensure they are covered.

My point when replying to the first post was that accidents/incidents can happen to everyone, but the goal is not to have it happen. Let's all fly safe and enjoy it.

[W0X0F]

Ah yes,
TC's great aviators. From an earlier thread before they were classified...

Cadors Number: 2004C1774
Reporting Region: Prairie & Northern

Occurrence Information

Occurrence Type: Incident
Occurrence Date: 2004/09/10

Occurrence Time: 2000 Z  
Day Or Night: day-time

Fatalities: 0
Injuries:

 
 

Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYXD
Aerodrome Name: Edmonton City Centre (Blatchford Field)

Occurrence Location: City Centre
Province: Alberta

Country: CANADA
World Area: North America

 
 

Reported By: NAV CANADA
AOR Number: 42329

TSB Class Of Investigation: 3
TSB Occurrence No.: A04W0200
Event Information

Navigation error
Aircraft Information

CDN Registration: C-FGXH
Foreign Registration:

Flight #: TGO 987
 

Aircraft Category: Aeroplane
Country of Registration: CANADA

Make: BEECH
Model: C90A

Year Built: 1987
Amateur Built: No

Engine Make: PRATT & WHITNEY-CAN
Engine Model: PT6A-21

Engine Type: Turbo prop
Gear Type: Land

Phase of Flight: Approach
Damage: No Damage

Owner: GOVERNMENT OF CANADA, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Operator: GOVERNMENT OF CANADA, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT (2134)

Operator Type: State

 
 
Detail Information

User Name:
Ridley, Rod

Date:
2004/09/13

Further Action Required:
No

O.P.I.:
System Safety

Narrative:
The crew of TGO 987, a Beech King Air, was being vectored for a LOC BC/DME approach to Runway 16 at City Centre airport (YXD) in IFR weather conditions. The aircraft was vectored onto final and cleared for the approach. The a/c was then observed to be descending well below minimum altitudes and turning east off the approach, while advising Edmonton ACC that they were conducting a missed approach - 10 miles from the airport. The flight was unable to maintain headings or altitudes. On the second approach, the aircraft was again observed descending below published minimum altitudes and provided an incorrect DME readout - 4.7 miles instead of 10 miles, while once again diverging from the back course, to the west this time. The flight was able to convert to a visual approach and land safely.

 
 

User Name:
Ridley, Rod

Date:
2004/09/15

Further Action Required:
No

O.P.I.:
System Safety

Narrative:
UPDATE TSB reported that the Transport Canada Beech C90A, C-FGXH, operating as TGO 987 (CAR 703) was manoeuvring for a LOC BC/DME approach to Runway 16 at Edmonton City Centre (CYXD) in instrument meteorological conditions following a flight from Regina. After the aircraft was vectored onto the final approach track, ATC radar showed the aircraft to descend below minimum altitude and deviate to the east. The aircraft conducted a missed approach 10 NM from the airport. On the second approach, the aircraft again descended below published altitudes, exhibited speed fluctuations, and deviated to the west of the approach course. The crew was eventually able to go visual and land at CYXD. The TSB will conduct a Class 3 investigation into the occurrence.

Imagine being lost in a radar environment, TWICE! And lately some TC Types were checking if I was current. ( 6 & 6 in 6)

[Cat Driver]

WOXOF :

The problem is once someone gets in a position of inspector ( Safety Inspector ) they are pretty well cast in concrete, we have a few here in this area that are clinically brain dead, no matter how stupid or arrogant their actions they are now part of the TC team....and are protected.

...I know lots of TC guys who feel just as frustrated as we do about these idiots being protected but that is how the bureaucracy works.

Cat

[Squawking 7600]

Cat Driver,

It saddens me to hear of your misfortune with Transport and the Canadian industry. It's really too bad good guys like you are taken advantage of. I too wanted to start a business years ago but after jumping through all the hoops in the obstacle course that Transport set up for me....i just shook my and politely asked them "do you NOT want people to start businesses and have Aviation grow in this country????" Can't remember their reply...but probably something poilitically correct.

But anyways....that's life and we live with it. The thing to remember about aviation in canada is.......

IT IS THE BEST DAMN HOBBY!!!

[Cat Driver]

Squawking 7600 :

Thanks for the support.

What makes my case even more incredible is I have owned several Canadian Operating certificates both fixed and rotary wing over the years. In each of my companies there was never any problems with the regulator because I did everything to the best of my ability to operate safely.

Even more incredible is the fact that my last two positions of Chief Pilot with a 705 operator were at the request of TC to accept the jobs to ensure compliance with the regulations. One company was under suspension when I was asked to turn it around and the other was so shady that it was only a matter of time before it would be closed down.

There is a good part of this sad situation though, and that is these pricks finally did it to someone with the balls to stand up and do something about it.

So even though I no longer fly in Canada I will still be here to expose corruption when I see it.

Their big mistake was they forgot to factor in that once they stole my life savings by bankrupting me I have nothing left to lose. So now I am determined to do everything in my power to do to them what they did to me.

How am I doing so far?

Cat

[TOGA Descent]

Do TC guys violate their own: Yep. I heard a story from an FSS guy in Prince George. A while back a TC helicopter forgot to close a flight plan. The FSS guy had him violated.

Good Riddance

FSS is NavCanada, NOT Transport Canada. Good on the NavCan guy! Now, regarding the initial question..."are TC pilots that good?..." Answer. NO, they're not!

[snaproll20]

I have an acquaintance who may get some leverage to force TC into operating with a little more honesty and accountability.

I WONDER JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE VALID REASONS TO "RANT" ON THIS FORUM WILL BE PREPARED TO

a.) Stand up and provide solid and irrefutable evidence of TC wrongdoing.
b.) Sign on to a demand that the Minister make some changes.
c.) Help ( including themselves)
d.) Provide support in every other way to ensure TC and the "Industry" develop a better working and positive relationship.

Would all one of you let me know, please?

[TOGA Descent]

I would.

PM me for details. I'm flying this week, but will respond when I return home.