Vancouver VTA's

[E-Flyer]

Does anybody know where they will sell them? I tried calling Aviation world today but they were closed cause of Canada Day.

I reckon they're going to be sold out pretty fast, so that means that the rest of us should be grounded until they send out more charts?

Also is it just the VTA? I'd guess the VNC would change as well.

If anybody could shed some light on this it would be great !

[Big Pistons Forever]

The new Vancouver VTA and VNC was available in Victoria on Wednesday so the should be available everywhere today.

[Old Dog Flying]

Pacific Flying Club and PRO IFR both have them. Got mine on Tuesday but they are a terriblely confusing mess..read improvement by the company we all hate. But they are all "Experts" and we peons should just take what they give us and be quiet.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Pacific Flying Club and PRO IFR both have them. Got mine on Tuesday but they are a terriblely confusing mess..read improvement by the company we all hate. But they are all "Experts" and we peons should just take what they give us and be quiet.

......and pay them $38 and change for the privilage

[-Charlie-]

CFC has both the new VTA and the new VNC in stock.

[Cat Driver]

For $38.00 you would think they could print them on something that wouldn't rip apart at the folds after using them few times.

[SkyWolfe]

I remember the USA maps had a stronger paper material...

I got the last 3 at Aviation World.

[_dwj_]

In the UK the maps are laminated - as well as lasting much longer, it also makes it much clearer for plotting your track because you can use an erasable permanent marker rather than a pencil.

I just noticed that vippilot.com are now selling "plasticised" versions of the VNC charts for $26.95 (compared to $16.95 for the normal ones). I think this is new, because I've never seen them before.

[SkyWolfe]

I use erasable highlighter...

Works really well

[beaverbob]

I don't place many track lines on maps. However, if I do need one, I fold the map along the flight track and that becomes the line.

Bob

[Old Dog Flying]

We tried deciphering the new YVR VTA today and short of having real thick glasses or 20:10 eyesight I for one will be having a hell of a time reading the very fine print in the tiny boxes...and I have 20:20 plus reading glasses. I also got a new CFS and holy crap Batman...CZBB has 6, yes 6 pages of routes in and out of the place while Buttonville, in all of that high density airspace around Toronto.....only has 2 pages.!!!!

If that damned thing gets any bigger, I'll never get the little yellow bird off of the ground...over gross you say...yeah...in paperwork.

We have had "consultative meetings" with NavCanada representatives over the past 2 years and the complex junk on the YVR VTA is exactly what they proposed in the first place. It is obvious that those people answer to no-one but themselves.

[Invertago]

Guess now I have to update my Garmin now too...

[V1 Rotate]

With all the time wasted whining and bitching here, you could have already reviewed the map and become that much more familiar with the changes.

I went to one of the initial consultation meetings and was never so disguisged to be pilot. Grown men who claim to love flying their own airplanes were huffing and puffing at the thought of it taking an extra .1 to get Qualicum or Campbell.

No kidding Nav Can dosen't take you seriously.

Grow up.

[E-Flyer]

Meh, I called and already pre-bought my set of VTA's and VNC's... apparently they're not so bad with distribution.

I saw the changes, and I don't see what the big fuss is, they have opened up some really good spots for flight training which are clear of any transit routes between YCW and the mainland (altitude wise) and is also clear of the ABV 2500 TML airspace that has been changed around YNJ and YPK's airspace.

Go up flying, discover that area, it really is good ! Climb to 4500 feet and spin er down No traffic in the area. Glenn Valley was congested though.

[Invertago]

Flew the north shore today, seemed to flow well between controllers. I can see the pittmedows atc guys getting tired of clearing tfc through their zone now that terminal is down to 2500.

[marktheone]

I guess VNC and VTA sales were in the tank. This should pick em right back up.

[c170b53]

Why not split the CFS into sections as done in the States, smaller book should = less money + easier to flip through.

[metal]

Multiple CFS' like the A/FD in the states would be awesome. Nice slim cheaper book to carry around as opposed to the giant doorstop.

[marktheone]

I see now we have to buy another piece of paper for the flights we are not allowed to do during the olympics. Great.

Nav Canada has succesfully reinvented the straight line. They have discovered (in YVR anyways) that the shortest distance between two points is in fact not a straight line. It is much shorter and quicker to go around in circles for a bit and then come in. I think they feel guilty charging $36.00 for a 0.3 ride so they want to make sure I get my moneys worth. It's great.

[MichaelP]

If that damned thing gets any bigger, I'll never get the little yellow bird off of the ground...over gross you say...yeah...in paperwork.

My answer to that is that no aircraft can carry the amount of paperwork that supports it.
I worked on commercial aircraft a long time ago and the amount of paperwork was enormous with my stamp on seven pieces of paper for every operation it seemed!

The CFS is ridiculous! It should be put out in renewable pages as changes occur like every other such book in this World.
The only comparison would be Pooley's Air Touring Flight Guide and the Guide de l'Aviation General which used to be books too but are now loose leaf binders.

It is interesting to see how ironic flying is... As radar has been developed, and airliner performance has increased we now need more controlled airspace than when radar was prime only, many aircraft had no radios and heavily loaded DC6's would crawl into the air.

At every big Fly-In event, including the Arlington Fly-In this week, ATC is largely reduced because it cannot cope with the numbers. Efficiency therefore is improved with the reduction of ATC

[human garbage]

I see now we have to buy another piece of paper for the flights we are not allowed to do during the olympics. Great.

My thoughts too. I said it in another thread but can't resist saying it again for emphasis...F*ck the Olympics.

These changes make way more work for the the ACC guys and gals, and as someone mentioned Towers like Pitt. I'm sure they appreciate it. I have to wonder what is the point of making us all talk to terminal now...Half the students I hear don't understand what they are saying anyhow. It is a topic for another thread but on my mind because I've heard so much unintelligeable radio chatter lately. How do they qualify for 'english proficiency' when they can't even understand a controllers requests?

Between themselves they are even worse...On air to air yesterday I heard an exchange between two students heading to Langley that was 'Say again' back and forth ten times because neither could understand one another. In this case having the new airspace did help. When the first aircraft called Terminal they were advised the they were less than a mile and converging at the same altitude and direction. The 'pilot' responded with looking for traffic. Half a mile at ten o' clock and 'looking' is the response? The controller had to suggest a turn away from the other plane until he had them in sight. How sad is that? That controller undoubtedly prevented a mid-air collision between two people who should never turn a prop again.

Perhaps as we dumb down aviation and lower our collective standards, expanded controlled airspace is the inevitable result. I see ever more complicated and restrictive VTAs in our future.

[wheeliedriver]

anyone else been cleared direct to vic yet?

"cleared direct to Victoria, rog"
"negative, cleared direct waypoint TOVIC"
"really...?"

And watch out for TOVAN... what was wrong with Active Pass and Samuel?

[A2G]

Come on people, up here in Canada we have the giant CFS because if we go down, we're most likely in the middle of nowhere and need all that paper to roast our beavers over while we wait for rescue. Or if we had a fresh roll of tape, we could tape all the pages together to spell "Help" or as Mr. Leh likes to say "Hello". It's just Canada being one step ahead of the states.

[The Mole]

If your from K-beck, you get the special CFS that twice as thick.