My salary, your thoughts please.

[Laxputs]

Looking for some info from people that have been around and have a good handle on industry standards.

At my current job, I am being paid by the mile (.25cents) and am expected to come in 6 days per week (8-5), even if there are no scheduled flights. I have 800 TT, and am flying a 206. Should I just be happy I have a PIC job and not worry about the depressing 8$/hr it works out to? Is this low, very low, or middle ground?

[Invertago]

Wow... the recession won't last for ever, my advice, if you can, take some time off and enjoy yourself, travel, camp what ever. Come back to flying a year from now when your wage will be hire, you'll have more work and less time wasted being 'on duty'. 800TT might not mean much this year, but last year it could get you way better jobs. Probably next year you could get twice as much with the same experience.

[Just another canuck]

my advice, if you can, take some time off and enjoy yourself

My opinion... that's horrible advice. You did say "if you can", so you must realize most people can't do that. You will regret the fact that, a year later, you still have 800 TT, when you could have an ATPL.


The money is quite poor, but is there anything that says you can not ask for a raise? The worst your employer can do is say no, right. Why not stick around at the job you have and search for work elsewhere. There are still jobs out there for those willing to seek them out and move if necessary.

Good luck.

[baron_dude]

Maybe ask for compensation for the time you are sitting in the office. Even if it is minimal at least it is something...Depends I guess on how much you are flying whether or not you should stay...but if they aren't paying you to be in the office when you aren't flying I wouldnt be spending my days there. Are you doing work when you go in? or just waiting? If you are doing work then it is obscene not to be paid for it!

[C-GGGQ]

but if they aren't paying you to be in the office when you aren't flying I wouldnt be spending my days there. Are you doing work when you go in? or just waiting? If you are doing work then it is obscene not to be paid for it!

Welcome to flight instructing

[Big Pistons Forever]

-Is the airplane poorly maintained ?
-Are you pressured to fly over loaded or on bad weather ?
-Does your employer commonly treat you in a verbally insulting or abusive manner ?

If the answer is yes to any of the above....leave now

If the answer is no, than I would say unfortunately having any job at 800 hrs TT in the current economy is not something you want to give up without alot of thought.

You do not get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. Talk to your boss, the worst he can say is no. I would consider adding a value added component to your discussion. For example If you are sitting around anyway ask for base pay in return for doing some office work

[shannon]

x2!

Eight hundred hours is not a great many hours. Unless other areas of the job are bad, I'd ride it out. Build your hours and keep applying to jobs you want.

[North Shore]

A job is better than no job (keeping in mind the points BPF raised above) but, I'd do something about the sitting around at work without pay. Perhaps a base pay? If not, it's pager/cel time, and call me when you need me...

['effin hippie]

Jeebus.

Assume the guy is at least billing in statute, so you average maybe 125 over .5 legs.

.25 x 125 = $31.25 per air hour. That's pretty low I'd say for any A/C. In summer you might do OK if your balls to the wall, winter is gonna suck hardcore.

How busy are you? Does the boss pay accom and food?

My 2c. Stay as long as you are making good time. The industry is crappy, and another 350 pic will make the book look a lot nicer come Oct.

Forget about the money. This is a time builder, and you will be adding to experience bag. DO NOT fall into the trap of thinking about how much a cancelled trip is leaving you out of pocket when the clag rolls in later in August. Maybe the guy is an asshole, maybe he's just cheap. If he's an asshole, learn right now how to say NO and mean it. If he cans you, it'll feel awful but please believe me, it will be for the better before very long. Let us know how it goes.

For this to be OK longer term, there should be base pay and closer to $50/hr. Min base $1000 IF the roof and grub are taken care of. The money right now makes the guy sound like a massive sleaze-bag.
Either way, unless the money improves quite a bit, you can walk on this guy without a shred of guilt whenever a better opportunity rears its head.

And yah, keeping a 206 airworthy is NOT that hard. If the guy can't even keep 6 jugs, some tin, 1 VHF and the goddamn Garmin (which conveniently doubles as a timepiece!) in good working order then leave tonight.

Anyway, at least from here it can only get better. Good luck!

ef

[Brewguy]

Out of curiosity, I don't suppose that 206 is based in southern ontario; and that its a lot of short hops that land back at the point of departure (with say, lots of 'visitors' on board).... ?

[Laxputs]

I really appreciate all the input, guys. I'm getting close to 100 flight hours a month so I'll ride it out for now. There are some other pressures in regards to the operations of the plane (and I imagine those pressures are fairly common in the industry, one could probably guess what I'm refering to) that add to my frustration with the job.

[Lurch]

Should I just be happy I have a PIC job and not worry about the depressing 8$/hr it works out to? Is this low, very low, or middle ground?

I'm getting close to 100 flight hours a month.

Let me get this straight

You are making $800/month?

That is very very low, Time to ask for base pay on top of the mileage.

Otherwise I fully agree wth BPF

Lurch

[the hustler]

Ask to be paid in cash, and then go on welfare. Your "unemployed" time will count towards you getting EI to pay for a multi-IFR.

[Laxputs]

No. If you work out the hourly pay of the time I am either at the airport waiting for a charter (not getting paid), or flying the airplane (.25cents/NM), it works out to about 10$ or 11$/hr, the 8$ was a little low.

[Lurch]

No. If you work out the hourly pay of the time I am either at the airport waiting for a charter (not getting paid), or flying the airplane (.25cents/NM), it works out to about 10$ or 11$/hr, the 8$ was a little low.

Sorry but $1000-$1100/month is still shit pay

Ask for a raise it couldn't hurt, worst case scenario, you still get paid shit wages.

Lurch

[Just another canuck]

Something isn't adding up here it seems.

I've never flown a 206, but does a 120 knots seem about right?

120 knots x 100 hours = 12000 miles

12000 miles x 25 cents = 3000 dollars

So, I'm guessing you must be factoring in the wait around time into your hourly figure Laxputs?

Also, every company I've heard of that pays mileage usually pays in statute miles, not in nautical, which would make your salary even greater if this is the case... closer to 4000 dollars a month. Is this correct? Or is my math out to lunch?

[Sleeve of Wizard]

Being affected by the economic downturn I can understand the "take what you can get" attitude. It's so frigging hard to play your cards right now. I find it completely unacceptable to be paid basically minimum wage in order to get those coveted 1000 hours or whatever it is you're looking for. We settle for whatever job we can get because we feel that we should be lucky enough to have one.

Doesn't this further drag us down? Then again, if you don't accept those conditions, you don't have a job... damn vicious circle!

Where do you draw the line?

[Lurch]

Something isn't adding up here it seems.

I've never flown a 206, but does a 120 knots seem about right?

120 knots x 100 hours = 12000 miles

12000 miles x 25 cents = 3000 dollars

So, I'm guessing you must be factoring in the wait around time into your hourly figure Laxputs?

Also, every company I've heard of that pays mileage usually pays in statute miles, not in nautical, which would make your salary even greater if this is the case... closer to 4000 dollars a month. Is this correct? Or is my math out to lunch?

Don't forget about start-up, run up, and taxi, if they are short hops he could only be flying 0.3-0.2 for a .5 of flight time.

[Just another canuck]

Don't forget about start-up, run up, and taxi, if they are short hops he could only be flying 0.3-0.2 for a .5 of flight time.

Okay, good point... somehow I fail to believe his employer is allowing him to add .2 to all his legs. I know of places that have disallowed this anyway, for fear of the pilot time-xing.

So, tell us Laxputs, what kind of monthly salary are you bringing home? If you don't mind sharing that is.

I just have this feeling you think you should be getting paid more, which is most likely the case. However, if you are making mid-30's or more a year, then this situation isn't all that bad.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Out of curiosity, I don't suppose that 206 is based in southern ontario; and that its a lot of short hops that land back at the point of departure (with say, lots of 'visitors' on board).... ?

They're not in business anymore, if you're talking about Niagara Air Tours. EDIT* are they?

Back to the original topic, is there something else you can offer to do in exchange for adequate compensation when you are not flying? Been there...you have my condolences.

[Laxputs]

Lately it's been 100 hours flight time per month; but I'm paid in mileage which relates to air time, not flight time. I took in about 3k gross last month, but I was basing my figures on past and projected averages for this company.

About 10000 miles per month at .25 =2500$. Divide that by how often I'm there, roughly 8 hours 6 days a week and we arrive at 10 - 11$ per hour.

[Phlyer]

If you compare that to the flight instructors that have to sit around all day for nothing and maybe get the odd flight for $20 I'd say you are doing not too bad. Sad as that is.
What's really unfortunate is there are a hundred guys out there that would take your job in a second. Man this industry is 'phucked' as IABD would say.

[Captain X]

My 1st flying job i had 250hrs TT flew a 172 and got a cheque for $600 for the month.... I quit once I saw the pay cheque (I was promised alot more) which was a whole learning example in its own.)

However I know your just getting started but its not worth it (if your making only $1000)... quit do something else that pays more and wait.... things will turn around and you will be better off having some $$ in your pocket and/or your flying loans paid down

I took another job at the airport and waited for a year and got my start

also when I got my 1st C206 (wheels) job i had 600 hrsTT and made $2500/month

[young grasshopper]

Not to hijack the thread or anything...BUT...I had a buddy flying a 206 which paid $1500/month salary with accomodations paid for. There was no vacation time, so he took 2 weeks of (unpaid) vacation. Once he got back from his time off, he showed up to collect his paycheck. Instead of the usual paystub/cheque, there was a note saying "Sorry______, but once we split your salary in half (he was gone half the month remember - unpaid), and deducted the revenue lost on the apartment for 2 weeks, along with these expense claims (that were in excess of what the company was willing to cover), you OWE us $17!!! Unbelievable!!! $3000/month to fly a 206 with 800TT isn't excellent, but its more than reasonable. Also - 100 hours a month doesn't really leave very much time to be in the office, does it? I remember flying the 185 for 100 hours a month and can't remember much "down" time. Stick it out and good luck in the future.

[Invertago]

Hmmm, my comments of take time off and enjoy the slow economy involved taking the $8/hour at face value. If you're actually pulling in near $3000/month enjoy it and stay where you're at.