Why sault college is not a great option

[sepia]

Sault cost me $700/semester for 7 semesters. I'll do the math for ya, it's $4900 for a commercial multi ifr, with unlimited sim time. Most people can't get a rec permit for that much.

Clearly you're not familiar with Sault and Confeds programs. If you were you could have avoided looking so foolish.

[SuperchargedRS]

I recently acquired a March 1938 Aero Digest. One of the advertisemts is for Bennet Air Service; for only $1688 you get trained and licensed for Transport Pilot, Flight Instructor, A&P Mechanic, Airport Operator, Aircraft Dealer AND you get a brand new 1938 Cub.

I plan on framing this add, this is what a pilot should be. Not this panty waste talking about your feelings and learning to write a frickin hiku crap.

If this type of program existed nowdays (even minus the getting the aircraft) you would not have even a slightly hard time getting a job after "graduation". btw, they didnt even have to offer a degree or claim to be a college lol

[BTD]

I recently acquired a March 1938 Aero Digest. One of the advertisemts is for Bennet Air Service; for only $1688 you get trained and licensed for Transport Pilot, Flight Instructor, A&P Mechanic, Airport Operator, Aircraft Dealer AND you get a brand new 1938 Cub.

I plan on framing this add, this is what a pilot should be. Not this panty waste talking about your feelings and learning to write a frickin hiku crap.

If this type of program existed nowdays (even minus the getting the aircraft) you would not have even a slightly hard time getting a job after "graduation". btw, they didnt even have to offer a degree or claim to be a college lol

The point of this is?

There is no flight training unit that offers this. If you were to get all these ratings/skills nowadays it would cost you an enormous amount of money. So you should either start a crusade to make the above things a requirement to be a Transport pilot, or get a DeLorean

[Hedley]

Not sure I'd really want a Delorean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Entrapment

Before the trial began, the FBI's videotape of the sting was leaked to the media by Hustler Magazine publisher Larry Flynt. In the videos, when arresting DeLorean, an FBI agent is shown asking him whether he would rather defend himself or have "his daughter's head smashed in."[13] This prompted the judge to postpone the trial until the following year because of undue bias from the leaked tape.

DeLorean successfully defended himself with a procedural defense, arguing that the police had asked him to supply the money to buy the cocaine. His attorney stated in Time (March 19, 1984), "This [was] a fictitious crime. Without the government, there would be no crime." The DeLorean defense team did not call any witnesses. DeLorean was found not guilty due to entrapment on August 16, 1984.

I don't think I'd want the cops to smash my daughter's head in, sorry.

[SuperchargedRS]

If this type of program existed nowdays (even minus the getting the aircraft) you would not have even a slightly hard time getting a job after "graduation". btw, they didnt even have to offer a degree or claim to be a college lol

The point of this is?[/quote]

And the point of this is:

It seems the process of becoming a pilot has evolved/de-evolved considerably since then. Now it's english, electives and generally allot of non-aviation fluff, where as back then it was straight business.

[pilotman15]

I agree with this poster... This program is a money grab just like all the other aviation diploma programs. Here's why:

The John Abbot professional aviation program back in the day cost 55- 60k. It was a full time program which lasted for 2 or 2.5 years. The non pilot courses consisted of a few accounting , business and some other classes.

That being said, the reason why these programs are a waist of money, is cause you can get a real piece of paper (ie. your University degree) AND get your commercial license for the same price as these programs. The university degree looks way better and will open other doors as well as a solid backup in case you need one.

Just my thoughts

You should really do some research before posting your thoughts. Sault is government subsidized, just in case you don't understand that, it means flying is FREE! yes FREE! The only thing the student pays is normal college tuition of about 3500/year. That times 3 years is 10 500. And that gets you the commercial multi/ifr. Hell of a lot cheaper than any university program or any private program. And like an above poster stated, FREE unlimited sim time. So before you start reading and believing what people like aviationknowitall have to say do some research for yourself.

[BibleMonkey]

...this is what a pilot should be. Not this panty waste talking about your feelings and learning to write a frickin hiku crap....

she watches
satisfied after love
he lies
looking up at nothing
beneath
leaf mold
stone
cool
stone
Then his hot air balloon crashed 'cause he never done graderated college!

lol

lol

[BTD]

If this type of program existed nowdays (even minus the getting the aircraft) you would not have even a slightly hard time getting a job after "graduation". btw, they didnt even have to offer a degree or claim to be a college lol

The point of this is?

And the point of this is:

It seems the process of becoming a pilot has evolved/de-evolved considerably since then. Now it's english, electives and generally allot of non-aviation fluff, where as back then it was straight business.

[/quote]

I suppose I should have said: "How does this apply to this thread?"

You come down on a college program for not offering this as part of their course (or sounds like you were) while no program private FTU or college program, anywhere offers this. Or at least they are few and far.

As well, being a mechanic/airport operator/aircraft dealer was not a requirement for a license back in 1938 nor is it required now. People would take those courses by choice, as they would do now.

BTD

[767]

it means flying is FREE! yes FREE! The only thing the student pays is normal college tuition of about 3500/year.

uhmm uhmm.. excuse me for the typing, just got in from the bar..

I like that idea. However, I think that it doesnt entitle the college program to add extra "non sense" non aviation related courses to its cirriculum just becuse its free. That is what high school is for. I remember high school, i took the hospitality course.. They wanted me to run to the dollar store and buy some cardboard box and make a restaraunt out of it. it was worth 60% mark in the course.

The courses at these subsidized colleges should be about flying a damn plane. sarcastically speaking, i hope they dont make you build a model plane or something, and hopefully they dont make you fly it, lol.

And I agree with you that "inuitgifts" should do the research.

[BTD]

it means flying is FREE! yes FREE! The only thing the student pays is normal college tuition of about 3500/year.

uhmm uhmm.. excuse me for the typing, just got in from the bar..

I like that idea. However, I think that it doesnt entitle the college program to add extra "non sense" non aviation related courses to its cirriculum just becuse its free. That is what high school is for. I remember high school, i took the hospitality course.. They wanted me to run to the dollar store and buy some cardboard box and make a restaraunt out of it. it was worth 60% mark in the course.

The courses at these subsidized colleges should be about flying a damn plane. sarcastically speaking, i hope they dont make you build a model plane or something, and hopefully they dont make you fly it, lol.

And I agree with you that "inuitgifts" should do the research.

The tuition pays for the unrelated courses. The government doesn't.

Hospitality??? Okay. The few English courses are there so that you can improve your writing skills, mostly technical writing. That way the graduates can properly put together a resume and cover letter when applying for those flying jobs.

I have used the background from the Hydraulic courses and Electronics courses in all the ground schools I have taken.

The Maths/Physics while not necessarily directly applicable to flying, they develop problem solving skills. Ask why almost all of the major aviation companies in Canada want a degree (or diploma) even if it is unrelated to aviation.

I really don't understand ragging on a program for offering more than the minimum. If someone is uninterested in a college aviation program, then don't go. There are other ways of being successful in the industry.

BTD

[Hedley]

Not sure why anybody wouldn't want free
(taxpayer-funded) flight training.

I would strongly recommend the subsidized
aviation college route for any ontario resident.

Afterwards, if you want, get a degree. Perhaps
some of the college credits would transfer.

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

Exactly.

Can't understand why someone would prefer to put themselves $50 000 in the hole with a five yr prospect of grossing $30 000/yr if you're lucky.

The bigger question IMO is why tax payers continue to subsidize training when there are plenty of people willing to finance it themselves?

[Brewguy]

...However, I think that it doesnt entitle the college program to add extra "non sense" non aviation related courses to its cirriculum...
<snip>
...The courses at these subsidized colleges should be about flying a damn plane...

Any flight training unit can teach you to 'fly the damn plane', you don't need to go to college for that.

What would be the point of having a bunch of so called 'college graduates' who essentially have nothing more than a high school education?

If these programs didn't teach college level subjects, outside of the ground school that every pilot takes, then they should be shut down. Its the extra courses that make it a college education, not just a heavily (tax-payer) subsidized flight school.

[sepia]

...However, I think that it doesnt entitle the college program to add extra "non sense" non aviation related courses to its cirriculum...
<snip>
...The courses at these subsidized colleges should be about flying a damn plane...

Any flight training unit can teach you to 'fly the damn plane', you don't need to go to college for that.

What would be the point of having a bunch of so called 'college graduates' who essentially have nothing more than a high school education?

If these programs didn't teach college level subjects, outside of the ground school that every pilot takes, then they should be shut down. Its the extra courses that make it a college education, not just a heavily (tax-payer) subsidized flight school.

You clearly don't have the slightest clue about how the college programs are run.

[Dagwood]

This is on Avcanada, so it MUST be true!

Sault College is the best school in Canada for direct entry into Air Canada.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5936

[GoinNowhereFast]

I can't believe this thread is so long

[BigQ]

OP, I'm sorry that you got so pissed off about your failures that you actually came crying to us on Avcanada.

I went to Sault. True, not a perfect school, but none of them are. I got out last year with a Group 1 CPL last year, did my time on the ramp, and just recently got to flightline.

-The planes are better than 152s and 172s. True, they're not Columbias, but that means that while you're doing your XCs you can actually enjoy the views outside. And I wouldn't call 1995 outdated... They're coming close to their max TT, but that's only because they've been tested to 11,000hrs by Moravan and the maintenance boys and girls are good enough at their jobs to keep those planes flying well into 40,000hrs - and Sault College will try...
-There are women in the Sooage, you just have to look for them (hint: Docks, or The Canadian. The alternative is Studio 10)
-The college has plenty of opportunities to have jobs on the side as you do your studies... I was working on campus the whole time and it never interfered. Paid for beers, nights out, and skiing trips, which was a bonus.
-I did 10 months ramp time, now I'm MIFR Turbine F/O. Classmate who started working at the same company at the same time did it in 4 months. And we weren't whiney.
-Something tells me if you thought there was nothing to do there, maybe you shouldn't come out of your big city. Aviation in Canada has a lot to do with leaving your natural environment and discovering new playgrounds in order to find work.
-All the profs were great at what they do best. Maybe you were incompetent in understanding that 3 years of english classes are a necessary evil to have a Technology diploma. Same as physics, mechanics, hydraulics, economics, and math.
-Instructors at my time weren't mavericks. Combine that with the fact that there has been very little instructor turnover since the time I left, and that leaves me with a feeling that you probably didn't get the required 3.1 GPA after the first semester and called it quits because your classmates were flying and you weren't...

Sometimes, in order to become a better, mature person, there is a need to listen to 2 hours of Air Law in monotone voices; There is a need to listen to little chubby ladies talk about citing your sources the APA way in English class. There is a need to learn about derivatives and integrals - okay, maybe not, but do you see my point? Going to college is just that: going to college. And if you're not up for it, then fine, don't. Other people would give away many a thing to go to college, or get a second chance.

/Rant

BigQ
Class of 08 - and damn proud of it.

[Clarence]

Because it sux

NUF SAID

[Theophrastus]

Reading the last 3 pages of posts,

Sault sounds like an average college program, with some problems, and many sucess stories?

Grunted staff and students aside.. it can't be that bad... Jr. was accepted... so, its an option for us we're (me with the money) are considering.

[sepia]

It's a far better than average program.

[hairdo]

Does any pilot on here want to fly with a guy who has an attitude like knowitall does?

If you can't hack the program, how're ya gonna do when you get flying for someone in the middle of nowhere? You gonna cry home to mommy? Seriously, this isn't high school, so suck it up and work harder.

[inuitgifts]

Hey Sepie

So let me get this straight.... you are basicaly telling me that this college is actually FREE??

WOW... Then I guess its true about pilots... they really do find anything and everything to bitch about... I'm surprised this post was even started... Who could possible find the time to bitch about a pilot school that is free...

My god...

[Tim]

Hey Sepie

So let me get this straight.... you are basicaly telling me that this college is actually FREE??

WOW... Then I guess its true about pilots... they really do find anything and everything to bitch about... I'm surprised this post was even started... Who could possible find the time to bitch about a pilot school that is free...

My god...

its not free, but the flying portion is. you only pay for classes. the good tax payers of ontario cover the rest. when i went there i spent about 13000, if i remember correctly, over 3 years (not even an ontario resident, thanks folks!). its more expensive than what sepia said earlier, but only by a few hundred dollars/semester. i do have issues with the school, but they are all with the majority of staff that work their, and the attitude the have towards the students. i got into a few arguments with power-happy line instructors who were under the impression they were the flying czars of sault college. LSP was a little bitter and jaded and he tended to take it out on the students...wasnt a fan of that (it seemed to get worse when he switched from wearing belts to suspenders). dean kirkwood was a jackass too. however, other than being a little short on solo time, the flying program is quite well set-up, and the high standard that is set pays dividends.

so if you can deal with a bunch of 'ace' instructors for 3 years, its a great option.