High Speed Taxi

[tonysoprano]

You think you AC guys would show a little more gratitude toward the hard working tax paying WJ crews. Our government had to lend you $600 million to stay afloat.

See Sarg, there's real bullshit. Yours is just crafty spinning, right? You're so fucked up you can't even tell the difference anyway. Don't worry, you'll get your money back Sarg, even though not a penny came from you personally. Keep working hard Sarg, you're my hero. Crossing seatbelts and picking up the garbage, WOW!! And by the way, AC crews pay just as much in taxes.

[Flying Nutcracker]

HAHAHAHA! Can't believe this is still going on, AND with 2 separate topics in one!!! Aaaahhhhhhhh, good old Avcanada!

Is it true what I hear that there are some, SOME, AC crews who will always take the long way for an approach, taxi slow, and in general NOT consider an efficient way of flying EVEN when there is not a single safety factor saying they couldn't be more efficient, BECAUSE they are doing tit for tat and "screwing" the man back??? Is there ANY truth to this??? And, if so, would that be a contribution to the overall operating LOSS of the company???

Does the SOP elaborate on specific taxi areas and specific taxi speed limits for specific areas, or is it just a general speed limit for taxiing??? Is there a posted speed limit on an apron, or is it just up to ones airmanship to pick a speed for taxiing??? Then would'nt it be "what's fast for me is not necessarily fast for you" kind of a scenario???

I think WJ has a culture that promotes efficiency and it is a culturally accepted philosophy to think efficiency, but not at the cost of safety. It seems a little darker on the other side...

But I digress... what was the topic again???

[tonysoprano]

Is it true what I hear that there are some, SOME, AC crews who will always take the long way for an approach, taxi slow, and in general NOT consider an efficient way of flying EVEN when there is not a single safety factor saying they couldn't be more efficient, BECAUSE they are doing tit for tat and "screwing" the man back??? Is there ANY truth to this??? And, if so, would that be a contribution to the overall operating LOSS of the company???

Possibly. Not likely. Losing your bread and butter is not part of the plan. But more likely another fallacy that's part of the total brainwashing sessions.

Does the SOP elaborate on specific taxi areas and specific taxi speed limits for specific areas, or is it just a general speed limit for taxiing??? Is there a posted speed limit on an apron, or is it just up to ones airmanship to pick a speed for taxiing??? Then wouldn't it be "what's fast for me is not necessarily fast for you" kind of a scenario???

I think we've all been around long enough to be able to tell what's too fast or too slow without requiring our managements to put a speed limit in our SOPs and without each of us needing a speed gun to tell how fast the other guy is going.

I think WJ has a culture that promotes efficiency and it is a culturally accepted philosophy to think efficiency, but not at the cost of safety. It seems a little darker on the other side...

"It seems"? How? Have you ever worked at AC or is it once again part of the fallacy-culture at WJ? AC has been using that very same philosophy of efficiency and safety before you or I were even born.
You're not digressing. You're throwing stones.

[Flying Nutcracker]

This is FUN!!!

If I am throwing stones, then why are you trying to catch stones that are not even aimed your way?!?!?

The dark comment is directed more towards the ones that obviously are on a personal agenda of not being part of the efficiency philosophy, thus hurting the rest of the "team".

Brainwashing has a very diverse area of utilization! From the positive to the not so positive. Probably the worst is the negatively saturated workforce brainwashing from the grassroot. It can work both ways.

I am going to go back into my secret corner now... who knew it was covered in glass...

[mikeecho]

Have you ever worked at AC or is it once again part of the fallacy-culture at WJ? AC has been using that very same philosophy of efficiency and safety before you or I were even born.
You're not digressing. You're throwing stones.

That's funny. With regard to the WJ culture and the AC fallacy, I have only heard our executives provide fair and honest dialogue about our biggest competitor.

In the old days, Clive used to stir the pot to the media a lot, but internally he was very cautious.

I think that a lot of us who speak of AC on forums like this have actually worked there and lived through the rough times like the merger, SARS, CCAA, etc...

Speaking for myself, my opinion is based strictly on my personal experience with AC which was bad at the best of times!

[jjj]

You are wrong Tony as many of your colleagues throw away the bread and butter and teach it to the newer generations as a way to get by.

"Natural block growth" and "Sick day if required" are uniquely Air Canada problems that are ingrained in the culture.

Hopefully the day will come when almost all your pilots will put in an honest month's flying.


jjj

[tonysoprano]

jjj.
Not even sure what natural block growth is but sick if required is not an inefficiency. It's rarely used and only works if there is enough coverage. Our contract has many benefits to our pilot group but for the most part is set up to favor the company in order to be efficient. There is by and large a fair balance. AC's woes do not come from the pilot group. Perhaps your buddy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Hopefully the day will come when almost all your pilots will put in an honest month's flying.

What the @#$! would you know?

[AuxBatOn]

I think the main difference between WJ and AC (from an outsider's point of view) is that WJ employees actually give a @#$! about the company and give their best, and AC's employee will mostly work for themselve, not giving a rat's ass about the company. After all, they are unionized and there is not a chance the union will let the company fire their ass. It's all about company spirit, and there seems to be very little at AC, if any.

Again, a point of view from the outside.

[tonysoprano]

Auxbaton.
Your lack of knowledge and reasoning makes me feel more privileged to work where I do and makes me realize just what the other companies are missing.

[AuxBatOn]

Auxbaton.
Your lack of knowledge and reasoning makes me feel more privileged to work where I do and makes me realize just what the other companies are missing.

Maybe I do not have any intimate knowledge, but AS A CUSTOMER, this is how I FEEL.

[Donald]

I have endured lengthy wait times during IROPS, but when the phone is answered my problems have been solved. HINT: A little bit of politeness goes both ways. AC seems to be everyones favourite beating stick, when they deserve it and when they don't.

Westjet has answered the phone quickly, and been unable/unwilling to provide a satisfactory result.

Just my experiences...

[tonysoprano]

I think the main difference between WJ and AC (from an outsider's point of view) is that WJ employees actually give a @#$! about the company and give their best, and AC's employee will mostly work for themselve, not giving a rat's ass about the company. After all, they are unionized and there is not a chance the union will let the company fire their ass. It's all about company spirit, and there seems to be very little at AC, if any.

Again, a point of view from the outside.

As a customer you have every right to feel a certain way based on your experiences. But I think you're being very unfair and ignorant to the many hard working people that do give a rat's ass. A day on the job with us would probably make you see things differently but then again you don't sound like you give a "rat's ass".

[stickontheice]

I think AuxBatOn has hit the nail on the head. Rovinescu has admitted that part of AC's recovery includes: disgruntled travellers, “re-engage” employees and overhaul the corporate culture.

Last Christmas there was an Air Canada aircraft that sat on the tarmac for six hours before finally being re-bridged. The other day during a red alert there's AC with both engines on (A320) while we're on the APU. That lasted for over an hour.

Last Christmas we spent a ton of money getting everyone to where they had to be. If we couldn't do it right away then there were hotel and meal vouchers.

All this and now we have to lend money out to the very corp. that turns it backs on people time and time again. There's very little appetite left for continuing to bail out this airline. And the Gov't isn't going to continue life support for very much longer. Just have to look at what happened to Nortel to see the writing on the wall if it doesn't get better and soon.

Good for you AuxBatOn for pointing out what is obvious to most.

[jjj]

What would I know Tonysoprano? - you smug bastard.

Quite a bit - thanks. I work for WS but I come from an AC family.

"...sick if required is not an inefficiency." - That little snippet made my weekend.


Have a good weekend y'all.

jjj

[whiteguy]

Auxbaton.
Your lack of knowledge and reasoning makes me feel more privileged to work where I do and makes me realize just what the other companies are missing.

Maybe I do not have any intimate knowledge, but AS A CUSTOMER, this is how I FEEL.

And as a "customer" you look for and comment on the negative rather than the positive!

[AuxBatOn]

Auxbaton.
Your lack of knowledge and reasoning makes me feel more privileged to work where I do and makes me realize just what the other companies are missing.

Maybe I do not have any intimate knowledge, but AS A CUSTOMER, this is how I FEEL.

And as a "customer" you look for and comment on the negative rather than the positive!

That's not knowing me. I look and comment on the positive as well. I will call someone's supervisor for good service. I did for Westjet recently actually.

[tonysoprano]

What would I know Tonysoprano? - you smug bastard.

Quite a bit - thanks. I work for WS but I come from an AC family.

"...sick if required is not an inefficiency." - That little snippet made my weekend.


Have a good weekend y'all.

jjj

Like I said, you're being fed something that's not correct. We can sit here and antagonize each other to death all you want. I'm not about to let your "AC family's" version of my contract let you get away with bullshit. Hey listen, speaking of bastards, you work for WJ but you come from an AC family. Hmm.

[elvis]

Tonysaprano stop trying to defend a losing cause;take your pay cheque and enjoy your meger ,seniority based time off.

[tonysoprano]

Thanks elvis I will and you enjoy your cult membership. Peace brother.

[jjj]

I'm still waiting for a rebuttal or clarification on how "Sick if required" is not an inefficiency.

If you can explain that one Tony - I'll send you a bottle of your favorite wine.

JJJ

[tonysoprano]

Awe geeze j, it's late out here. Ok. Here goes. Bear in mind I haven't been on reserve for a while. Sick if required use to be (is?) a tool that a RESERVE pilot could use if he was not fit to fly but did not want to use allotted sick time because he may not end up being called and therefore he would waste that sick time if not called. I believe there must be adequate coverage for this option otherwise you have to bookoff and someone else gets drafted. Unless there is something I'm missing, I don't see this as inefficient. Like I said, the contract is a balance between efficiency and the interest of the pilots. Look it up. I'm sure you have a copy. Got any Amarones from the '90s?

[tonysoprano]

...hurry up j, I'm going to bed soon.

[lawndart]

I will take a stab at it: If you are sick if required, and the company doesn't require your services, they don't credit you with being sick that day. How is that efficient, you ask? Well, assuming a reserve pilot gets paid by the hour and has sick days that are paid time, if the company doesn't require them, they don't pay out the sick time for that day. The pilot keeps the sick day, the company keeps their money and everyone is happy.

Conversely, if a pilot calls in sick then the pilot is debited a sick day, the company pays out the sick pay when none of the above had to occur. It is similar to not calling in sick, being required and then booking off sick. That is an inefficient way of doing it, because the scheduler doesn't know that you are going to book off until they call you for the trip. The sick pilot gets woken up from resting to get better and the operation is left scrambling to find someone to fill the seat.

All of that assumes that the reserve pilot is actually sick.

Being from the "AC family" JJJ, I would assume that your experience of sick if required is that of a senior pilot who bids reserve in the summer or over christmas and then is "sick" if they are required. That way, they don't burn days off and don't even have to take their phone with them waterskiing. It is an abuse of the sick policy, and I wouldn't tar all the pilots at AC with the same brush.

[jjj]

Yes Lawndart, the abuse of the sick policy is what I was referring to.

No I don't tar all of the AC pilots with the same brush.

I'm just arguing with TS for the sake of arguing.


JJJ

[tonysoprano]

Where's my bottle?