Airspace help

[skateosiris]

Hi, I am just studying my VNC, and have a couple questions,

When it says something like B12500 ASL, does that mean it is class B above 12,500 ASL, and below would be class G?

Does anyone know of a website where they give good information on VNC charts, like sample questions?

Thanks

[paydaymayday]

It means that B starts above the supplied altitude, yes... but it does not state which is under it. Look around that airspace to see what kind of airspace is under it.

Also, here is a mnemonic I used to teach:

G - Good airspace. Don't have to talk to no one.

F - F'd up. Restricted/Advisory/Danger etc.

E - Everywhere. What most VFRs will be scooting around in.

D - Damn radio. You need to establish contact to get in.

C - Mode C/clearance. You need your Transponder in mode C, and a clearance to enter.

B - Busy ports.

A - Asshole IFR drivers. Although I don't think I'm an ass

[Edelweiss air]

I'm pretty sure class B always has class E underneath it.

[Tim]

class B airspace can have anything but A below it.

[RFlyer]

It means that B starts above the supplied altitude, yes... but it does not state which is under it. Look around that airspace to see what kind of airspace is under it.

Also, here is a mnemonic I used to teach:

G - Good airspace. Don't have to talk to no one.

F - F'd up. Restricted/Advisory/Danger etc.

E - Everywhere. What most VFRs will be scooting around in.

D - Damn radio. You need to establish contact to get in.

C - Mode C/clearance. You need your Transponder in mode C, and a clearance to enter.

B - Busy ports.

A - Asshole IFR drivers. Although I don't think I'm an ass

For Class D, what does "establish contact" mean? Once you speak to ?the controller? s/he will respond with what? "Hi how are you?"? Wouldn't they just say "Cleared to enter"? I'll have to look at my Vancouver VTA because I don't recall ever seeing this (or flying through it, at least), mostly Class C around here for VFR I think.

[paydaymayday]

In class D, they don't have to clear you to enter, they just have to acknowledge your intent to enter. This doesn't stop most of them from saying "cleared to enter", though.

[RFlyer]

I see, so you could pretty much call up ATC and say "I'm coming into the zone" and they pretty much couldn't stop you under normal circumstances I guess. BTW - I've got my "Canada's Airspace" poster beside me - Transport Canada number TP6010, 2nd Edition. It confirms what you say and does a pretty good job of defining the purpose of each class of airspace, but the distinction between C and D is pretty subtle. Would be good to know what rationale they use when deciding one over the other.

It also says a transponder is required "in designated areas" for class D.

[paydaymayday]

In designated areas means it will say "MODE C" by the Class D airspace on the VNC.

[GoinNowhereFast]

Class E always has class B above it. If it says B12500, that means class B at 12,500' and G underneath.

[paydaymayday]

Yes, class E always has B above it, but what I said is that B doesn't always have E below it.

[skateosiris]

Thanks for all the great reply's, basically im trying to determine what class of airspace for a certain airport, and it is surrounded by some jagged line which on the legend says "E700", but on the actuall map it has B12500 within surrounded area.

And also say you are flying at 5500 through airspace that says "C9500 ASL MODE C", would that be class E or G since you are not above 9.5?

[paydaymayday]

It's surrounded by this jagged line with the E700... this means Class E starts at 700 feet AGL and extends upwards. Normally, if not otherwise stated, it starts at 2200 feet AGL. You can see that class B extends upwards from 12500 (non-inclusive of the 12,500 exact.)

If you are flying through that airspace that says C9500 ASL Mode C, but you are at 5500, then you are in whatever surrounding airspace exists at this altitude.
So, for example, lets say that you see that jagged line with E700 somewhere around and outside the C9500. The airspace is as follows:

Ground-700: Class G
700-9500: Class E
9500-12500: Class C
12500-FL180: Class B
FL180-FL600: Class A
FL 600 and up: Class G

[skateosiris]

Thanks for the quick reply, it doesn't actually say E700 on the map, just on the legend for the jagged line, but I assume it would be class E then

[Dagwood]

the distinction between C and D is pretty subtle. Would be good to know what rationale they use when deciding one over the other.

D = Need radio CONTACT (NOT clearance) to enter. Sometimes if the zone is busy the controller will ignore an aircraft who is entering because any acknowledgment of his basically permits the pilot to enter the zone. However, to keep the peace, if ATC says "stay clear", even though you have radio contact, you better stay clear!

C = Need radio CLEARANCE to enter. Apparently CYXU has changed to Class C due to the many ESL students training there. Now the controller can tell them to remain clear if he can't understand their transmission, and they must stay clear of the zone in this case.

[CelBatrin]

FL 600 and up: Class G

If you remenber anything about airspace, it should be this. It comes in extra handy.

Well, since we're talking way up there, to what altitude does a countries sovereign airspace extent? FL 600? I remember reading bout this somewhere but I cant recall.

[yvanddivans]

Well... Class C & D... if I remember well what my instructor said... the difference resides with what the ATC has to do... in terms of spacing IFR and VRF aircrafts.

Class C: ATC has to space both IFR and VRF equally (pretty rare ... most airports throughout Canada are class D)

Class D: ATC has to space IFR... and VFR if they have to time and feel like it.. which they usually do. (some trick to say its the pilot's fault if anything happens? like they need that! mouhahaha)



I might be wrong... in fact I'm pretty sure I am.. just want to post it so someone slap me saying how wrong I am! :)

[paydaymayday]

I would say class C airports are much rarer than class D. Controllers are not required to seperate VFR aircraft in either C or D, and conflict resolution is on request in both (in D, it's workload permitting).

[skateosiris]

I guess I should have mentioned it, but the airport im talking about is CER3, so if any one is familiar with it maybe they can verify if it is class E?

[yvanddivans]

I would say class C airports are much rarer than class D. Controllers are not required to seperate VFR aircraft in either C or D, and conflict resolution is on request in both (in D, it's workload permitting).

I knew I'd mess them up... :(

Fixed.

[FlaplessDork]

Yes, class E always has B above it, but what I said is that B doesn't always have E below it.

Incorrect, some TCA's have Class C above the E.

[navajo]

Is there any class B below 12 500?

[Tim]

Well, since we're talking way up there, to what altitude does a countries sovereign airspace extent? FL 600? I remember reading bout this somewhere but I cant recall.

90km according the info i have

[old_man]

FL 600 and up: Class G

I do believe it is actually Class E airspace up there.

[RFlyer]

I found a link to the TP6010 map of Canadian Airspace I referred to above. According to it, a control zone can be class B, C, D or E. Therefore it is possible to have Class B starting at ground level and working up to the top of the CZ.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/Aerod ... tp6010.jpg

[paydaymayday]

FL 600 and up: Class G

I do believe it is actually Class E airspace up there.

This proves that it is possible to believe something and be terribly mistaken.