VFR pilot into IMC

[Randleman]

Randleman; I'll pass on a little advice I got at the end of my initial IFR ride from the examiner, who by way of establishing his credentials was one of the first, if not the first, TC delegated IFR examiners. As he was signing off my license he said to me, "this doesn't mean you can blast off right away into IFR conditions; all this is, is a license for you to learn." I have no idea how many IFR recurrency rides I've done since then, and I'm not about to waste the time figuring it out; but it's advice that's stuck with me well enough that I can still quote him exactly.

The guy who told you it's the safest way of flying was correct, when all goes according to plan; when it doesn't, he was also right in saying it's also the most dangerous. I think back a lot of years ago, to the guy who like you had a fresh multi-IFR rating. He took some passengers out on an IFR flight in a rented Seneca and ended up killing himself and everyone else on board when he pooched his approach.

Yeah, thats how I've been treating my IFR rating too, I'm trying to rent out a plane with an instructor to do some IFR in it, as opposed to just taking a plane and bombing away. Hopefully I'll be able to progress to doing IFR in solid actual IMC sometime in the next year or so, but I'll take it as I go, and I'm not about to try something I can't handle. I guess I didn't make it sound like that in my original post.

Perhaps I should stop posting because everyone seems to get the wrong impression of me?

There's nothing wrong with posting; there's even nothing wrong with being wrong as long as you can recognize the fact and admit it to yourself at least. In aviation the old truism certainly applies; "try to learn from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself!"

Fair enough. Posting in this thread has definitely opened my eyes to a lot of stuff I didn't realize. And how can I compete with a few multi thousand hour pilots on my own with no experience anyway right?

I don't want people to sweat it for me, I wouldn't dream of going and doing something that is beyond my capacity. I was under the impression it was better to inadvertantly enter IFR conditions rather than to ditch it, but I guess I am quite wrong on that.

[reality check]

I was under the impression it was better to inadvertantly enter IFR conditions rather than to ditch it, but I guess I am quite wrong on that.

Wrong again young fella.

It is better to never have to go into inadvertent IMC conditions through good decision making. Pretty much everyone posting have told you that, and there are some guys on here with a lot of time in places you can't imagine yet, or maybe never will depending on what you do with your career.

[Randleman]

I was under the impression it was better to inadvertantly enter IFR conditions rather than to ditch it, but I guess I am quite wrong on that.

Wrong again young fella.

It is better to never have to go into inadvertent IMC conditions through good decision making. Pretty much everyone posting have told you that, and there are some guys on here with a lot of time in places you can't imagine yet, or maybe never will depending on what you do with your career.

yeah, i realize that lol, thanks though.

[Hedley]

*** edited ***

[_dwj_]

Ok, let me try to simplify/clarify things for randleman:

[1] Following proper IFR (i.e. 1000 feet above any obstacles within 5 miles, IR pilot, IFR equipped plane) in IMC = ok (although doing it in a single engine plane mightn't be the best idea if the ceiling is low)
[2] Flying in IMC close to ground (below 1000 feet) = bad/dangerous/dumb/illegal (unless flying an instrument approach or departure, of course), whether or not the pilot has an IR

The thread here originally was discussing [2], but I think you were talking about [1], hence the confusion.

[iflyforpie]

Here in the rocks, it's 2000 feet within 5 miles. That makes it 14,000 feet for most of where I fly.

[Randleman]

Ok, let me try to simplify/clarify things for randleman:

[1] Following proper IFR (i.e. 1000 feet above any obstacles within 5 miles, IR pilot, IFR equipped plane) in IMC = ok (although doing it in a single engine plane mightn't be the best idea if the ceiling is low)
[2] Flying in IMC close to ground (below 1000 feet) = bad/dangerous/dumb/illegal (unless flying an instrument approach or departure, of course), whether or not the pilot has an IR

The thread here originally was discussing [2], but I think you were talking about [1], hence the confusion.

yeah I figured it out a while ago-I mixed things up which is where the confusion was. Lol, my bad.

[Randleman]

Here in the rocks, it's 2000 feet within 5 miles. That makes it 14,000 feet for most of where I fly.

Hah, i know, I did all my training including my IFR out of Langley

Bought my plane in Chilliwack, left it on the grass in Langley.

[_dwj_]

yeah I figured it out a while ago-I mixed things up which is where the confusion was. Lol, my bad.

It's not entirely your fault. Before you post anything on avcanada you need to read it 10 times and try to figure out every way it could be pulled apart by the flamers and trollers, otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

[Randleman]

yeah I figured it out a while ago-I mixed things up which is where the confusion was. Lol, my bad.

It's not entirely your fault. Before you post anything on avcanada you need to read it 10 times and try to figure out every way it could be pulled apart by the flamers and trollers, otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

Yeah but i don't think STL or Lurch or anyone else are trolls. Oh well, it's all good.

[U/S]

if you don't have an IFR, don't fly IMC. IFR procedures are all laid out, there is no fu$&ing around, an altitude is an altitude, a track is a track. If you you follow the map and the approach, you're good, if you don't you're not. descending blindly into cloud is not a good plan no matter how bullet proof you think you are, especially in an under equipped 172 and no related experience.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Randleman

Quite frankly, I would have done the same. Maybe not as a Private pilot with minimal instrument training, but now that I have my instrument rating, if I ever found myself in a situation where I deemed it was necessary to enter cloud in VFR conditions for safety reasons, I would not hesitate to do so.

Are you kidding me?
1- Why would you find yourself in the clag when flying VFR conditions?
2- What the hell do you mean by your knowingly going into cloud for safety reasons???
3- How long do you plan on living?
4- Will you be taking those risks with unknowing passengers on board?????
5- Who taught you to think this way, because they should really get out of instructing!

No I'm not kidding you.
I am talking about a situation where you are flying through a hilly region where the weather has come down on you and you are trying to stay out of the soup, but also trying to keep your distance from the ground/obstacles.

1. I just gave you my reason, I would rather fly through the clouds than through trees.
2. Read above^^
3. However long i am supposed to? What kind of a question is that?
4. I am not suggesting just going into cloud for the heck of it, I am talking about an IFR rated pilot in an IFR rated plane who knows what he's doing and does it to be safe.
5. A few senior airline pilots at Jazz actually told me this scenerio, not instructors.

Judging by your response, I am guessing you are an instructor? Which really doesn't surprise me. I can almost guarentee you an airline would want the person who's going to do what's necessary to get the plane back safely. Which is why air operators tend to prefer non instruction time-instructors stick by the rules too much.

1) There is absolutly no reason to fly though clouds/in the soup if you've been dilligent about your flight planning/Wx checks.
2) Read number 1 point above
3) If your of the mind set that you'd fly IFR when bombing around in VFR conditions your looking for trouble. Remember if your on a VFR trip, do you have your plates, gps updated, Wx brief, and are you in the mindset to fly an approch when you were not expecting it???
4) I agree with you, but if your planning a VFR flight, you shouldn't be in the clag.
5) It's one thing to play the ''What if game'' but to go out and do it for real is another matter.

I am not an instructor, but a bush pilot with a current IFR rating who is still learning things everyday.
Just saying... Be safe out there dude, that's all

[Randleman]

Are you kidding me?
1- Why would you find yourself in the clag when flying VFR conditions?
2- What the hell do you mean by your knowingly going into cloud for safety reasons???
3- How long do you plan on living?
4- Will you be taking those risks with unknowing passengers on board?????
5- Who taught you to think this way, because they should really get out of instructing!

No I'm not kidding you.
I am talking about a situation where you are flying through a hilly region where the weather has come down on you and you are trying to stay out of the soup, but also trying to keep your distance from the ground/obstacles.

1. I just gave you my reason, I would rather fly through the clouds than through trees.
2. Read above^^
3. However long i am supposed to? What kind of a question is that?
4. I am not suggesting just going into cloud for the heck of it, I am talking about an IFR rated pilot in an IFR rated plane who knows what he's doing and does it to be safe.
5. A few senior airline pilots at Jazz actually told me this scenerio, not instructors.

Judging by your response, I am guessing you are an instructor? Which really doesn't surprise me. I can almost guarentee you an airline would want the person who's going to do what's necessary to get the plane back safely. Which is why air operators tend to prefer non instruction time-instructors stick by the rules too much.

1) There is absolutly no reason to fly though clouds/in the soup if you've been dilligent about your flight planning/Wx checks.
2) Read number 1 point above
3) If your of the mind set that you'd fly IFR when bombing around in VFR conditions your looking for trouble. Remember if your on a VFR trip, do you have your plates, gps updated, Wx brief, and are you in the mindset to fly an approch when you were not expecting it???
4) I agree with you, but if your planning a VFR flight, you shouldn't be in the clag.
5) It's one thing to play the ''What if game'' but to go out and do it for real is another matter.

I am not an instructor, but a bush pilot with a current IFR rating who is still learning things everyday.
Just saying... Be safe out there dude, that's all

Fair enough, thanks!

Cheers,
-J

[. ._]

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[FlaplessDork]

I know this has been flogged to death but I thought I'd revive it after seeing this.