Lower Than Std T/O LImits - USA

[northernpilot]

Maybe someone can help:

If a Canadian operator has the 1/4 mile or 600 RVR T/O OpSpec, for a flight in the US, does said Canadian operator need a US OpSpec to exercise the same privilege, or does the TC OpsSpec apply for the operator when in the US as well?

Thanks in advance.

NP

[bezerker]

As usual, it it whatever is the most restrictive. At least in the USA it is easy to figure out take off and landing limits just by looking at the approach plate, unlike here.

[northernpilot]

the plate says STD: RVR 50 or 1

The plate also says: Adequate Vis Ref: RVR 1600 or 1/4

The "Adequate Vis Ref" requires an OpsSpec, so the more restrictive concept doesn't necessarily make sense here....at least not to me. We have the OpsSpec in Canada, so can we use the OpSpec authorization in the US?

thanks!

[bezerker]

FAR § 91.175 Takeoff and landing under IFR.

(f) Civil airport takeoff minimums. This paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121, 125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.

(1) Unless otherwise authorized by the FAA, no pilot may takeoff from a civil airport under IFR unless the weather conditions at time of takeoff are at or above the weather minimums for IFR takeoff prescribed for that airport under part 97 of this chapter.

(2) If takeoff weather minimums are not prescribed under part 97 of this chapter for a particular airport, the following weather minimums apply to takeoffs under IFR:

(i) For aircraft, other than helicopters, having two engines or less—1 statute mile visibility.

(ii) For aircraft having more than two engines—1/2statute mile visibility.

(iii) For helicopters—1/2statute mile visibility.

The "Unless otherwise authorized by the FAA" means an OPS SPEC. Look in your COM as it should have the list of american OPS SPECS if you are a commercial operator.

Which airport are you talking about anyway?

[pelmet]

We have specific Ops Specs for U.S. operations listed in our company ops manual on in addition to our Canadian Ops Specs. I believe that there is a cost involved as well.

[northernpilot]

We have specific Ops Specs for U.S. operations listed in our company ops manual on in addition to our Canadian Ops Specs. I believe that there is a cost involved as well.

So do we, and I looked through them and there is no Ops Spec for lower than std vis take off in the US Ops Spec.

The airport I am thinking of is KELM....Elmira, NY....look on the Jepp take off limits info page and you get:

Adequate VIs Ref for 1&2 Engine and for 1&3 Engine: RVR 16 or 1/4

STD for 1&2 Engine: RVR 50 or 1

STD for 3&4 Engine: RVR 24 or 1/2

Another example, is if you have the Ops Spec for CAT III approach in Canada, you don't need an Ops Spec in every other country you fly to in order to exercise that privelege....at least so I was told by an 30 year airline pilot.

[Liquid Charlie]

You will be restricted by the canadian t/o alternate rules -- US rules are based on all engines operating and the canadian rules based on engine inop --

[northernpilot]

You will be restricted by the canadian t/o alternate rules -- US rules are based on all engines operating and the canadian rules based on engine inop --

So, you're saying that other than the T/O alternate restriction, we'd be authorized to use the Adequate Vis Ref limits based on the fact that we have the Lower than STD Vis T/O Ops Spec in our TC OC?

[bezerker]

Dude, it it whatever is the most restrictive. If you can't find authorization to takeoff below standard in the FAA addition to your Ops manual, then you can't.

Each country has its own standards (with some joint agreements).

Just because your operating manual from Equatorial Guinea says you can takeoff 0/0 and do Cat III landings in your Seneca doesn't automatically mean that you can in other countries.

Ask your Ops Manager, as he/she in in charge of compliance with FAR 294/129.

On another note, they don't really seem to give a $hit in the USA about what weather we choose to takeoff or land in. I don't think the guy in the tower could care less about who has what authorization to do what. But, if you do get caught, you can lose your authority to operate commercially in the US, which I bet would cause most executive charter operators in Canada to go tits up.

[Nark]

FAR § 91.175 Takeoff and landing under IFR.

This paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121, 125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.

Unless your operation holds at least one of these certificate (most likely 129, foreign carriers), you'll be operated as part 91, which is 0-0.


Clear as mud isn't it?

[turbo-prop]

NO UNLESS YOU HAVE THE U.S. OP SPEC!!!!!!!

[northernpilot]

I finally dug it up....we do have the ops spec...i am really surprised how little our guys knew about this stuff....when some of the senior guys didn't know(I've only been in this job for a few months), i didn't bother to look initially because I assumed they would know what ops specs we have for the USA...what is it they say about assuming?

[Hawkeye4077]

What about a privately operated aircraft?

[Hedley]

In the USA, FAR part 91 applies to private aircraft.