ATC language usage

[ettw]

OK, I'm sure this is going to get stupid real fast but I am quite sincere and looking for real, educated, straight up opinions here. Bear in mind, it is not my intent to slam Quebec (I have lived there) or french ( my wife and kids are bilingual). This is just another discussion regarding french on the radio.

I fly out of CYFB (Iqaluit, NU) and the controlling ACC is Montreal. So here is the question:

Although it appears to be legal IAW the AIM COM, is it appropriate for Montreal to deal with a/c in french even though it's not in Quebec or Ottawa? I think alot of pilots who fly in and out of YFB have not a speck of french comprehension and for them its pretty unnerving.

To carry it further, suppose it was decided that Montreal was going to control Rankin Inlet (I know, its not controlled and if it was it would be Winnipeg), would it be OK for french to be spoken in the system there?

Thoughts?

Cheers,

ETTW

[2R]

Der schnellste Weg zum Abschluss die Aussprache englische oder französische würde für alle Deutsch sprechen werden.


Deutsch ist die mehr natürlichen Sprache für alle Europäer und denen der Europäischen Abstieg .As zu sprechen, es die meisten Intelectual der von der alten Welt-languages.I nicht verstehen, warum die deutschen Ingenieure, denen ich ist mit zusammengearbeitet Englisch mit allen anderen Ingenieuren aus Italien, Frankreich, Japan, Russland, Czechslovakia, Irland und Englanders sprach

[Lufthansa]

Stimme Dir voellig zu, R2 !!!

[2R]

Die Wahrheit ist immer angenehme

[Nark]

Nun liebe Kinder gebt fein acht, ich bin die Stimme aus dem luft!

My german is limited to what Rammstein sings about.

[sky's the limit]

OK, I'm sure this is going to get stupid real fast

Well, that didn't take long, did it?

stl

[2R]

Bessere die Stimme aus der Luft als die wenig stimmen in den head-Bereich

[AMM]

I'm sure this is nothing new, but I couldn't help but think of it:

Allegedly, a Pan Am 727 flight waiting for start clearance in Munich overheard the following:
Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"
Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."
Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"
Unknown voice from another plane (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war."

[AuxBatOn]

ettw: how do you feel about aircraft operating in your vicinity, on a different frequency than you? It's a possibility, even in controlled airspace and perfectly legal.

The bottom line is, if something is pertinent to you, ATC will let you know. I understand that you derive your SA from comms, but in a case like that, ATC will let you know what you need to know.

If that fails, learn some (very) basic French terminology and you'll get a sense of what's going on.

[randallg]

I flew through Quebec on the way to PEI and back this summer. I was IFR the whole time, stopping at Quebec City eastward and Sherbrooke westbound. The majority of ATC chatter was in French, which I do not speak, but I did not find it to be a problem. Landing in Sherbrooke for fuel, I called the Unicom in English and they responded in English, and informed me of other traffic. I was impressed by how friendly they were, even when I said bonjour as I was leaving (hey I thought it meant good day).

[jeta1]

comment removed - time expired

[. ._]

I wonder. Can I speak french on the radio in Saskatchewan legally? Or is it only legal in Quebec?

-istp

[navajo]

I'm a Quebecois and I don't think it's appropriate to speak french on the radio outside of Quebec or Ottawa.

Of course I did it with Montreal center at night when it was really quiet on the radio and I was flying in Nunavut (and I realized I was not able anymore to do my comm in french!), and I chatted a little bit in french with a friend of mine who was ATC in Halifax, but I don't think it's appropriate, for normal operations, to use french on the radio outside of Quebec and Ottawa, even if it's with a french speaking ATC.

[navajo]

I wonder. Can I speak french on the radio in Saskatchewan legally? Or is it only legal in Quebec?

-istp

NO! The idea beside the rule is that the official language of Quebec is french, so it doesn't make sense to banish french from the radio in Quebec! And for Ottawa, since Canada is a bilingual country, it make sense you can speak french in the capital (political reason). For the other provinces, their official language is English but NB, which is bilingual, and again, It make sense to don't speak french in a province where only a little minority of the population speaks french.

[Captain Slog]

Command of the English language is a requirement of the radio license, n'est pas. So why can't everybody just speak English. Too simple maybe

[Brewguy]

Ever notice that KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken), is called "KFC" virtually everywhere in the world, except in Quebec?

It's called "KFC" in France - but it's got to be called "PFK" (Poulet Frit Kentucky) in Quebec.... what's up with that?

[navajo]

It started again!

We had a serious conversation for once....!

Command of the English language is a requirement of the radio license, n'est pas. So why can't everybody just speak English. Too simple maybe

Yes for commercial pilots, but no for private pilot. It`s not fair to say to a french private licensed pilot who don't speak English, in Quebec, in his french speaking territory, that he would be grounded until he learned a foreign language. And if he's too old to learned that language, well he would have to stay on the ground?

For commercial pilots, it's just professionalism to speak English, but for private pilots, it's common sens to let them speak french.

[Jim la Jungle]

ettw,

back on topic, the frequency (or whatever voodoo) used in Iqualuit is the same as the one in the Val d'Or, Rouyn and even Wabush area. So the french you hear comes from planes in Quebec being controlled by the same guy. If you mean that french is being used to get in at YFB, I have to say that i don't agree with this even though I'm a quebecois. YFB looks like a traffic cluster $%"/ already....hehe

[ettw]

ettw,

back on topic, the frequency (or whatever voodoo) used in Iqualuit is the same as the one in the Val d'Or, Rouyn and even Wabush area. So the french you hear comes from planes in Quebec being controlled by the same guy. If you mean that french is being used to get in at YFB, I have to say that i don't agree with this even though I'm a quebecois. YFB looks like a traffic cluster $%"/ already....hehe

I am aware of the fact that they are controlling all of the areas you mentioned. My issue was with a/c operating into and out of Iqaluit en francais.

I also used to fly in french when I lived in Quebec so my SA is not affected by the language.

With respect to closing the thread, I don't believe I was slamming anyone on this one, just throwing what I ASSUMED was a legitimate question out there for debate.

Cheers,

ETTW

[flyincanuck]

Outside of Que it should be English.

The bottom line is, if something is pertinent to you, ATC will let you know.

Bull. I don't subscribe to that mentality - and you're comparing apples to oranges. I'm bi-lingual, but have a little trouble with technical French and the pace at which its delivered.

Going off topic a little: I was cleared the visual on 28 in YUL while everyone else was using 24R. I checked in with TWR in English - he responded in English.

A few miles later, the controller gave us a lengthy update (winds, crossing traffic, expect the land and hold short) in French. My colleague (bilingual) replied in English. Again the controller cleared us to land in French; and my colleauge replied in english. Once on the rwy, he again, cleared us off the rwy in French where I finally had to tell him to speak friggen english.

So I lost a clear representation of SA. As long as humans are involved, mistakes will happen. Why introduce another potential problem?

I'm not an advocate for French or any language on the air in any province.

And don't get me wrong. Next to BC, PQ is my favorite province

[bcflyer]

French in the air in Québec is here to stay, and in Ottawa, and as a matter of fact, very common in northern Ontario.

I admit its been a couple of years since I flew in Northern Ontario but I can count on one hand the number of times french was spoken there in the 10 yrs I was around. (the majority of it was actually splash over from the Quebec side of the bay.) I do recall one poor soul who made a position report in french going into Pikum though. The response was less than friendly..

[AirFrame]

I would no sooner speak french while flying an airplane than I would speak english while making love.

Right tool for the right job, n'est pas?

[Campanola]

I have an easier solution for the monolingual pilots always complaining here about french in the air: learn french!

BBC News:

"Being bilingual 'protects brain'
The findings are based on tests on 104 people
Being fluent in two languages may help to keep the brain sharper for longer, a study suggests. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3794479.stm

From NBC:

"WASHINGTON - Two languages are better than one when it comes to keeping the brain young, Canadian researchers reported Monday.

Older adults who grew up bilingual had quicker minds when tested than people who spoke only one language, the researchers found. They showed less of the natural decline associated with aging."

"They used a test called the Simon Task, which measures reaction time for cognitive tasks, such as recognizing on which part of a computer screen a colored square appears. Both younger and older bilinguals were faster on the test, Bialystok reported."

"In the monolingual group the differences between the younger adults and the older adults were in line with (the decline seen) in previous research, Bialystok said. In the older bilingual they slowed down significantly less, dramatically less."

At least, do it for your brain! In bonus, your level of frustration in life will be lower, wich is also good for the heart.

[armchair]

I would no sooner speak french while flying an airplane than I would speak english while making love.

Right tool for the right job, n'est pas?

LOL... "n'est pas?" stick to flying the airplane loverboy...

[Brewguy]

I have an easier solution for the monolingual pilots always complaining here about french in the air: learn french!

Fair enough, but learning "french" wouldn't really help much, would it?

If I were to learn another language, I would choose that language based on its overall usefulness to my life. If one were to learn actual french (you know, the language spoken in France and most other french-speaking place on this earth outside of Quebec), they may find it very useful for traveling around this world. Unfortunately, learning that specific language spoken in Quebec, won't do you much good anywhere outside of Quebec...

Perhaps Quebec should consider changing its official language to the same version of french spoken everywhere else. After all, us anglophone Canadians aren't speaking 18th century Ye Olde English any more.