Layoffs... True?

[loopa]

Is it true that air canada has laid off some pilots in the last few months?

I'm not starting a rumor but rather confirming what I've been told.

[balfour]

Not sure about that but there has been downgrades for sure.

[PC12flyer]

No layoffs yet. Let's hope it stays that way!

[the original tony]

I agree, nothing yet and no talk of it either.
I thought we were pretty well past the Really low point and on the way to level or slightly up. With new routes and such that may not be such a threat.
Here's to hoping there won't be any cuts, and maybe a bit of hiring!!
Need to get a few guys behind me on the list!

Tony

[Old fella]

I agree, nothing yet and no talk of it either.
I thought we were pretty well past the Really low point and on the way to level or slightly up. With new routes and such that may not be such a threat.
Here's to hoping there won't be any cuts, and maybe a bit of hiring!!
Need to get a few guys behind me on the list!

Tony

I don't work for AC, never did but I couldn't resist: If those flying senior citizens( like me 60 yrs of age, who can collect their CCP at a reduced rate) moved aside and let the better looking ladies and gents go up the next rung on the ladder, perhaps hiring could happen and you would get your wish on the list.

[twinpratts]

Yikes

[yycflyguy]

The latest hot rumour is that 100-120 new hires will be required on the next equipment bid.

[the original tony]

Old Fella, you are 100% right.
Not only do i agree but the other 99% of the pilot group here, give or take a number or two do as well. (i assume, but speak for myself)
anyway, i like the 100-120 hiring rumour, makes me feel better for the next 10 mins!!
safe flying all

Tony

[barefootpilot]

Heard that the Hiring/HR group was getting back together at the end of October and to start things back rolling again. There is a list of guys who were told they were hired but never offered a course date and then interviews for new year. I guess the unreplaced retirements are starting to catch up..

[babybus]

I agree, nothing yet and no talk of it either.
I thought we were pretty well past the Really low point and on the way to level or slightly up. With new routes and such that may not be such a threat.
Here's to hoping there won't be any cuts, and maybe a bit of hiring!!
Need to get a few guys behind me on the list!

Tony

I don't work for AC, never did but I couldn't resist: If those flying senior citizens( like me 60 yrs of age, who can collect their CCP at a reduced rate) moved aside and let the better looking ladies and gents go up the next rung on the ladder, perhaps hiring could happen and you would get your wish on the list.

Thanks old fella, most of us agree with you.
Things seem to be turning positive: lots of new routes overseas and down south, Jetz is getting new contracts and Calin keeps talking about growing.I would say we will be hiring soon.

[Old fella]

Glad to hear there is discussion of something positive(for a change) about your airline. Matter of fact, let hope the worst is behind and there is positive news for all Canadian Carriers. Needless to say, my pension cheque and your salary depends on this industry's continued health. Here's hoping the fix is in!!!!

Regards
OF

[RAIDER]

I heard from the training department that there will be no hiring in 2010. As well, there is 100 - 120 surplus pilots at this time - that is why the block hours are so low. Hope this is not true.

[bcflyer]

Is it true that air canada has laid off some pilots in the last few months?

I'm not starting a rumor but rather confirming what I've been told.

I'm kind of curious where you heard this?

[BLZD1]

The last TA union meeting said that we were 80 surplus, but by Jan. 2010 we will no longer be surplus.

[RAIDER]

I have flown with 2 pilots in the last month that are leaving on LOAs at the end of the year. Both have talked to the training department and they were told that there will be no hiring in 2010 and that for 2010 ( if there are no new routes announced ) that there are still about 100 surplus pilots. I wish AC would tell us what is going on - if they know. Both these guys are leaving because they are stuck at the bottom of reserve with no end in sight. If they were told false information then they may have made the wrong decision - I hope not - they were great guys to work with.

[rudder]

Allegedly buried surpluses from the last 2 bids range from 200-300 pilots. The fact that LOA's are being approved by flight operations speaks for itself. There will be no recovery in passenger traffic levels any time soon so growth is a figment of any potential new-hires imagination. And then there will be the effects of the elimination of age 60 mandatory retirement Prediction: hiring in Q2 2011

[loopa]

I have flown with 2 pilots in the last month that are leaving on LOAs at the end of the year. Both have talked to the training department and they were told that there will be no hiring in 2010 and that for 2010 ( if there are no new routes announced ) that there are still about 100 surplus pilots. I wish AC would tell us what is going on - if they know. Both these guys are leaving because they are stuck at the bottom of reserve with no end in sight. If they were told false information then they may have made the wrong decision - I hope not - they were great guys to work with.

Then I find this going against what so many people are saying about movement in spring. Everybody is saying that things will pick up in spring; but if airlines like Air Canada and WJA aren't even hiring next year, how will there be movement?

[RAIDER]

I have flown with 2 pilots in the last month that are leaving on LOAs at the end of the year. Both have talked to the training department and they were told that there will be no hiring in 2010 and that for 2010 ( if there are no new routes announced ) that there are still about 100 surplus pilots. I wish AC would tell us what is going on - if they know. Both these guys are leaving because they are stuck at the bottom of reserve with no end in sight. If they were told false information then they may have made the wrong decision - I hope not - they were great guys to work with.

Then I find this going against what so many people are saying about movement in spring. Everybody is saying that things will pick up in spring; but if airlines like Air Canada and WJA aren't even hiring next year, how will there be movement?

Hi Loopa,

I would be surprised if AC hired in the near future ( not that I am an expert on this subject ) because the blocks have been so low compared to a year ago. One pilot told me he spoke to a few people in the training department and there was no good news. That is why he was taking the LOA to pursue something else. Also, I believe he said that there was no intention on any new hires for all of 2010. As well, the age 65 situation may even cause some layoffs - but no one really can predict exact numbers or how it will unfold. All we can do is hang on and hope we all have jobs in the future. I believe Westjet is hiring in the new year. I had spoke with a WJ pilot in Vancouver last week and he said he thought they has started interviewing again. As well, a friend of mine had an interview at Porter about 2 weeks ago.

[the original tony]

I can't believe that there would even be a remote chance that this 65 bullshit can cause layoffs. With an occupation this hard to get into and stay in, where everything good and bad economically affects us, badly, we are going to layoff to bring back guys to go on gdiip five days later????
If this happens I would like to see a class action suit against them, i am being discriminated against due to my seniority. My life is deteriorating, to their benefit.
Everyone junior is being affeted adversely, that is discrimination due to me being under 60. My children and wife are suing for collateral damage.
This is so f'ing stupid i can't even see straight.
You are retired, accept it.
I'm going to have a drink and watch the golden girls, maybe i'll see what one of our "new" captains may look like.

Tony

[Brick Head]

Relax,

Multiple numbers get bounced around all the time. You need to know where it came from or the number is garbage.

Surplus/Short based on the end of a bid period which looks out 1 year?

Surplus short as of a specific date?

WHENEVER you hear someone throw out a number ask which one they are referring to. If they don't know file it under garbage.

For example last fall we were about 250 surplus. However the bid which looks out 1 year showed a surplus of 125. Leaves and low block hours took care of it.

This fall we are 125 surplus. The bid that comes our in December will look 1 year out again and show basically even. What this means is that by the end of 2010 there will no longer be surplus or a need for leaves or low block hours.

So yes in the same sentence someone could tell you that there will be 125 surplus or 0 surplus as of Jan 2010. Both are correct as long as you understand what each one means.

Rudder's guess is good. But just an educated guess.

[DocAV8R]

Quote:
the original tony wrote on another thread- Layoffs?
Quote:
I can't believe that there would even be a remote chance that this 65 bullshit can cause layoffs. With an occupation this hard to get into and stay in, where everything good and bad economically affects us, badly, we are going to layoff to bring back guys

The law prevents any layoffs when bringing guys back. With at least 10 retirements a month and less than 10% wanting to stay past 60, I am sure that any intelligent management could work it out. Bringing guys back may be the best insurance against layoffs we've got.

If the company is shrinking, no one was going to go up the ladder anyway, so the fuss is about nothing. If the company does well and grows as the economy improves and all the low end flying is not given away to Jazz, the juniors will end up with guys behind them and will advance in due course. With cooperation, sound minds, good judgment and a little creative planning, this can all work out for the best.

60 is gone and no matter what anyone feels about what it will do to them at this instant. The prudent response would be to work together to make it work out.

Why should the members who have paid into the union for 25, 30 or 33 years be less represented by their union than someone who just joined? Why would they have less right to fly than anyone else? Why does everyone feel the youth are entitled, anymore than anyone else? Everyone has worked hard and hates stagnation and paycuts. Why should the senior guys be any different? When did they get to vote on this issue?

The age issue has been fought many times but the only time these guys could complain was once they had been discriminated against. You can't put in a complaint until you have been discriminated against. That's the way the system works. Others have tried in the past to go the labour route, but it did not afford them the protection of rights that the CHRT has. Many had asked AC to stay on and the union was cited as the problem. They have tackled this issue the only way they could. The rest of the country and the world has changed. It is time Air Canada and ACPA play catch up. All the blasphemy, insults and threats will not change the outcome but only serves to ruin everyone's enjoyment of a career obviously we are all passionate about. Scaring all the junior pilots does not improve their lives or enjoyment or their careers. They have more important things to worry about.

The economy always cycles and we have recessions then boom times and growth. With good management growth should not be too far off.

This union should be reassuring everyone, that it will work hard to protect each and everyone of it's members and provide a pleasant, profitable workplace with the maximum it can negotiate for everyone.

Hopefully, Air Canada will last long enough for everyone to be making the choice as to when they want to retire and on what terms. Rather than dividing the members by spreading ageist propaganda, the MEC should be making the union a strong cohesive voice, speaking for all it's members and fighting for the rights they each deserve.

[Squid]

Too bad we can't get an honest number from our "leaders". Just spectacular moral building isn't it original tony?

What a place.

[the original tony]

squid, you are absolutely right. on the same token, what numbers can we be given? the same 60 retirement rule that let these poor lonely pilots into the 777 aren't happy to go.
so what is surplus? who is leaving?
at a defined age, I knew who is left, and who has left.
try planning your hiring based on the possibility... that maybe... some of our guys might stay..... if their medical holds.........
what is certain is that until you have a system that can take into accnt all the above, a number is just that.
then the same argument comes up that its done everywhere else. status pay and no pension is done in a lot of places too.
so i'm guessing that is next for our newly found ethical airline?
you want change, then do it all, not just the parts that fit into private agendas.

Tony

[Stick-Shaker]

I'm going to have a drink and watch the golden girls, maybe i'll see what one of our "new" captains may look like.

Tony

Good one!

[the original tony]

So, at the eind of the day....
Has there been any talk of layoffs, or any mention of it?
Just curious if someone has some info.
Hopefully the holidays lead into Olympics then into spring and summer flying.
If that keeps us busy enough maybe we'll be ok.

Safe flying all.

Tony