Things you don't want your Captain to say: "Please pray"

[Sulako]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091029/od ... 1029161322

Worried Iran pilot asks passengers to pray

2 hrs 16 mins ago

TEHRAN (AFP) – A worried Iranian airline pilot asked passengers to start praying after his plane was hit by a technical glitch early on Thursday, highlighting once again the notorious record of Tehran's aircraft.

The Aseman Airlines Boeing plane had taken off from Tehran airport after a six-hour delay, but had to return following a technical fault, the ISNA news agency quoted a passenger as recounting.

"The plane took off at 0015 in the morning and had to land back in Tehran after 45 minutes," the passenger said.

"The pilot told the passengers 'the plane is facing a technical problem and has to return. So please pray.'"

Iran has been under years of international sanctions hampering its ability to buy modern planes from major manufacturers, such as Boeing and Airbus, or spare parts, and has suffered a number of air disasters over the past decade.

Its civil and military fleet is made up of ancient aircraft in very poor condition due to their age, and lack of maintenance.

In July it suffered one of its worst air disasters when a Caspian Airlines plane, a Russian Tupolev 154, crashed near Qazvin, northwest of Tehran, killing all 168 people on board.

[raven54]

I'd take that over, "point your toes, we're going in deep!!!"

[paydaymayday]

Just shows you a difference in the mindset. Screw praying, there's many more productive things to do. I'll be fighting it to the end, troubleshooting, making sure my passengers and crew are prepared to the full extent, planning backup and contingency plans, and thinking through the problem to each reasonably expected outcome to ensure the maximum safety for everyone on board and on the ground.

Anyone remember that one emergency in the middle east when the (I believe) F/O just gave up and started praying to allah? The captain managed to wrestle it to the ground by himself, and if I'm not mistaken, rightfully beat the shit out of the F/O thereafter.

God is my copilot? My ass. (And I'm the only one to protect it)
-proud 'strong atheist'.

[Flybaby]

Wasn't there a case where the pilot was charged with criminal negligence because he let go of the controls right before the crash to pray and ended up killing more people. Faith is fine, but do your job, you can thank god in the post crash interview.

[Invertago]

"I wasn't asleep, I was praying"

[Flybaby]

"I wasn't asleep, I was praying"

for the plane to land itself. Gave it an hour decide to turn around and land it myself. Maybe next time It'll work.

[Lurch]

Ladies and gentlemen, the airplanes smoking so I don't see any reason why you shouldn't.

Lurch

[Driving Rain]

The plane landed safely, so I guess their prayers were answered.

[mdscientist61]

Wasn't there a case where the pilot was charged with criminal negligence because he let go of the controls right before the crash to pray and ended up killing more people....

You are thinking of this one.
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEno ... 3B20090325

[Flybaby]

Yeah that was the one I was thinking of.

[B-rad]

In all respect for the people who have faith in God, if it is so important to pray, do it before the flight!!

[BTD]

Anyone remember that one emergency in the middle east when the (I believe) F/O just gave up and started praying to allah? The captain managed to wrestle it to the ground by himself, and if I'm not mistaken, rightfully beat the shit out of the F/O thereafter.

This is the closest one I can think of. However, it is quite different from what you described. So maybe it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudia_Flight_163

There is more to this story. But I'm not sure where the full accident report is.

BTD

[xsbank]

Anyone who has flown in the Middle East or Africa has heard "Airline 652 requesting flight level 350 Insha'allah" or "Airline 652 cleared the approach Insha'allah" or even "cleared to land Insha'allah." Even the controllers use it. That's one nice thing about going past Bahrain, the controllers are all Aussies or Americans.

Flying across Somalia at 350, I was even heard to say it, not knowing the service ceiling of SAMs. Not knowing if they even HAVE SAM's.

What do you do if 'He' doesn't agree? At least hang onto the controls.....

[Vickers vanguard]

Wasn't there a case where the pilot was charged with criminal negligence because he let go of the controls right before the crash to pray and ended up killing more people....

You are thinking of this one.
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEno ... 3B20090325

check your facts before you start spreading stupid, non proven rumours ! in regards to the Tuniter ATR ditching,the pilot never let go the controls at any point before the airplane hit the water. He actually did a very good job bringing the airplane down. The only thing you can blame him for, was him not insisting on seeing the refueling slip that should have been left in the cockpit before he got to the airplane, in order to cross check the fuel uploaded versus what the fuel Qty computer was showing....and that's it. As for the prayer ? the copilot did said few times the phrase "in god, we rely" as they were gliding down, after having gone thru the QRH trying to restart the engines. So, it's a far cry from " let go the controls before the crash and that caused the people to die"
As for the italian banana justice( anybody familiar with italian politics would understand ) ? they needed somebody to blame, and instead of blaming the operator's maintenance control, they put it on the crew. They even released to the public the actual CVR tape ! The italians claimed that the airplane had the altitude in theory to reach palermo airfield I believe, had they glided the airplane at the first onset of a problem. That's not taking into account the time it took to realize the nature of their problem while trying to figure out why they had the low fuel pressure warning.

.anyway, just keep it to the facts when reporting something.

[Panama Jack]

. . . But the boundaries separating airline pilots are severely drawn-- hence social intercourse between pilots of one line and those of another is uncommon. There may be an interchange of pleasantries upon meeting, or sometimes a renewal of old acquaintance, but the rule is ever towards clannishness and pilots regard those flying for another line as foreigners subject to quite different, if momentarily interesting, society. There is also more than a hint of professional snobbery among the men of every line, each convinced that the methods, techniques, and demands of the other airlines must be somewhat inferior to his own.

These are a few lines taken from Ernest Gann’s book “Fate is the Hunter” based on his observations about airline flying about 70 years ago, but his observations still hold mostly true, as evidenced in discussions on AvCanada.

When it comes to discussions about groups of pilots in other parts of the World it becomes even more pronounced. I will not try to defend the actions of the Iran Aseman Airlines pilot; I wasn’t there to comment on it and I know that the media tends towards sensationalism.

But as a pilot of western origin flying for a Middle Eastern carrier, I often see some of these stories and impressions on how it is in the cockpit as being sensational and misinformed. It is said that 90% of all pilots consider themselves to be “above average,” but I would honestly have to say that a number of my “local” colleagues probably have superior skills compared to me—thanks to a tough and highly selective ab initio program for cadets and exposure to the “right” airline flying environment early on in their careers. On the other hand, my mind has been cluttered with too many different SOP’s from too many different companies, and of course, the less than desirable bush and chisel-charter “seat of the pants” background. Having said that, I find it hard to envision any of my colleagues abandoning their posts to roll out the prayer mat during the final seconds before impact.

Remember that unlike in Anglophone North America, religion is almost inseparable from culture in the Middle East and religious expressions sprinkle daily dialogue. I am equally guilty of greeting a Saudi controller with “Salaam Aleikum” or giving a position estimate with the qualifier “Inshallah” just as much as I have uttered the non-ICAO standard “checking-in” or “with you” in North American airspace.

Interestingly, the typical last words on CVR’s as pilots are wrestling with the emergency are:

In the West: “OH SHIT!!!!” (The PSA mid-air FO said “Mom, I love you”)
In the Middle East: “In God we rely”

Which one of these two dialogues is “unprofessional” or not published in the SOP’s or ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony?

P.S. xsbank, I don’t know how often you fly through Bahrain FIR but the controllers are not all Aussies or Americans.

[niss]

Jesuscopilot.jpg (88.16 KiB) Viewed 2094 times

[Invertago]

I had a great "Allah is my Co-pilot" cartoon, but seems Allah cartoons arn't as appreciated among some groups.

[Sqwak_Ident]

Talk is cheap. how would you feel if your little 150 quits flying even when you are in the circuit.
I respect all the pilots in the world that got their planes and passengers out of some serious trouble.
certainly aviation lacks discipline, that what some of the old CPs are trying to bring back

[FlaplessDork]

I have some friends that instructed in Saudi. If the Saudi's blow their approach or bounce they like to let go and yell out "Inchallah! Inchallah!" or "Gods Will! Gods Will!"

Its God's will for you to drive that F@#$ing airplane safely to the ground, so keep your hands on the controls!

[GilletteNorth]

When you feel the control column shake and a clearly stated verbal "I have control" from God, I guess then you can start praying.

[flyincanuck]

Hey Panama,

Thank God for having perspective!






...oh - shame on me for being so religious.

[Sqwak_Ident]

got to understand different cultures before ripping them to pieces. Inshalah (God willing) is what you would say Yepedo on your non standard radio call or we shall etc... initial contact is salam alakom its flight ... Destination is.. inshalah.
open your mind. i have heard Spanish pilot do their radio in their language french do as well . I think this is our way of putting a bit of culture in radio calls.

[loopa]

I agree with the above; as much as this thread seems to prove otherwise, there are some EXCELLENT pilot's from the middle east whom aren't dependent on god who are no different than Joe flying for American. Of course, with the international sanctions, hassan has no attitude indicator and is flying partial panel on a 10 hour flight from tehran to beijing