Bush pay???

[Dash-7wannaby]

well I approached my employer with my list of complaints about the salary I was paid and we came to an agreement I was happy with. Most won't say anything because they are just happy to be flying. As for the forty foot motorhome that was a situation within my company that I am employed. Very successful float operation. Sectratary asked for a 1.00 dollar raise and was beat down .50. A week later the owner had her bidding on a $325000.00 motorhome, which he purchased. Point being why not spend the money on the employees you have and they will make you money for years to come. My opions are from my personel experiences over the years. I'm just hoping the batch of new guys coming into the industry can make a change , and hopefully for the better. Happy flying.

[xsbank]

Actually we are Federally regulated which means hours of work (excessive) and working conditions (marginal). The rest is up to you and your employer. Like Cat says, the revenue you generate should be reflected in your pay.

Get on with the association. Its the only way.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Like Cat says, the revenue you generate should be reflected in your pay.

The operative word here is " should " unfortunately there are still far to many slave drivers in the industry that will use people because there is a never ending line of willing slaves to use.

Get on with the association. Its the only way.

A well organized and managed association of pilots that focuses on the most important problems in 703 / 704 companies such as failure to follow the rules and embarrassingly low pay will make it very difficult for these rogue operators and eventually either improve their operations or put them out of business.

But my bet is it will never happen because there are far to many wannabe slaves lining up behind the rest of you.

[Dash-7wannaby]

I'm new to this forum, and was just wondering what association(s) are out there for float pilots like myself. I've been in the industry some 20 years and had to fight to where i'm at now inregards to salary and just sick and tired of these so called operators abusing the system. I would support an association anyday if it would help put an end to these guys.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I would support an association anyday if it would help put an end to these guys.

There are several people on this forum who are actively trying to set up such an association.

You can start by contacting widow as she is the most active member here trying to make the industry a better and safer industry.

For many decades I wanted to start such an organization but the biggest problem was communication which is now far better with the internet.

With twenty years in the industry you should be a good candidate for such an organization.

I hope you guys and gals finally get together and do something.

[Dash-7wannaby]

Thanks .. If the above mentioned people involved in the association could comment and maybe steer me in the right direction you have my support 100%. Thanks again.

[Radial]

I've never understood the business decision behind saving a few dollars on salary and having high turnover. I guess that's why I'm not in the market for a $325000 motorhome.

[Widow]

Hi Dash-7wannaby,

This thread is a good place to start with some information about what is happening: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=56474

I may have more information that can be made public about both the College group, and the other group (more of a bush pilot association) in the next few weeks.

Please feel free to contact me by PM if you would like to get involved.

Kirsten S.

[Dash-7wannaby]

Thank you Widow, I check out your website earlier to find out more about yourself and what you do. My hat is off to. you for the enormous task you have taken on.This industry needs more people like yourself to send a message out there to try and make a difference. I will PM you in acouple of days to give you my e-mail so I can try and be of some help. Thanks again.

[Peteskelly]

Hello Ladies and Gents,

As a New comer to this Site I would like to add my 2 cents.... especially on this subject!

As a former Pilot of one of them transport trucks ( tractor trailer ) it was more or less the the same issues for the Drivers as it is for Pilots with low hours.
The main one was ( and it's the trend that's almost here to stay ) compensation of pay... very unbalance.

One of the of the reasons that both industry have high turn over rate is because the system has a built in revolving door... when one Pilot/Driver leaves theres a line of People ready to take Their places!!

[moose_meat]

Try this on for size:

Pilot/Dockhand
Hired with 220TT (25 Floats)
Aircraft: DOCK, C-185, Found Bush Hawk
Pay: After deductions $700.20 every two weeks (Salary is roughly $1800/month before taxes etc.)
Started flying solo mid-summer, moved onto cargo, and then pax soon after that.
Area: North Western Ontario

Upon being hired I was guaranteed at least 100 hours by the end of the summer, if not more. I worked from early May until Mid July before I had a day off. However, I was given nine days in a row off to make up for it. I've been treated very fairly as an employee besides low pay. If I've ever needed time off, as long as I gave some notice it was never a problem.

Talked with my boss about it, and he said I'd be paid more next summer, and that it increases with each summer that I return. He also said part of the reason the dockhand/pilots get paid so low is because of the amount of flying time we get compared to other dockhands. I was told to consider what it would've cost me to rent a 185 for 100 hours and that as an employer he takes a big risk to have me starting out with such little time.

I will be done for the season in another week or so, and to this point I have flown about 130 hours on floats.

[buck82]

That's all very well to promise you more later... however.. you are doing the work NOW and he is billing the clients NOW. I'm sure he's not billing them, nor cargo at a lower rate this year just because he's got a 300hr pilot flying. Sure, get your raise next year, if you do a great job this year it should mean you have a job next year; however the point is to earn a living for your work and be paid a reasonable wage.

[magicbox]

It s interesting fining out what the pay is like out there.
When you guy s quote the salary is it before or after tax???

So i take it a bush pilot with 1000+ Hrs could be paid anywhere from 4000 pm onwards... (by not very much)/6 months a year.
I find it quite poor considering training costs , no girlfreind/wife possibilities ect...
On the other hand real exciting and a great challenge to make up for the rest.

[supercub7]

But your not renting a plane your out working trying to make a living/pay the bills. That is a lame excuse and I think your being taken advantage of moose meat.

[Glory.]

Damn, sounds pretty rough. As a low timer myself i can definetly sympathize with you guys, some of these operators are pretty cheap. As for my situation...

aircraft used: Bell 206 Jetranger, Robinson 44
pay per month: 3200 salary, 20$ a flight hour
hours worked flying/other: usually 8-5 off the base, some weekends and nighttime ground runs. Just made the camp rotation last month and now doing 3/1 rotations and averaging about 50-80 hours each rotation. The week off is usually not a problem with management as long as i give them a heads up. Living in Fort st John is a little expensive, but Im rarely there anyways.

perks if any: Flying turbine and piston, rotation, great company, good pay. What more can I ask for?
area of flying: The oil patch

Got hired on in sept 2008 with 100 hours, worked my bag off all winter building conference rooms and offices, by july 2009 had the r44 and 206 endorsement, and hopefully by the end of the seson (December) ill have about 350 hours.

Believe me, everyday i say thankyou for my luck especially in such a bad year for everybody. Good luck in the new year boys!

[mess N around]

aircraft used:DHC-2
pay per month: $425 day
hours worked flying/other: 3 to 6 hrs a day
any overtime pay: No
housing included or not : Includes Hotel, travel costs to from work
time off: lots
perks if any: $50 per day per diems
area of flying: North America

[Indanao]

Union? Tradesmen have unions, and half of the Shops are non-union. Maybe more in Vancouver with VANOC preferring non-union Contractors. Letter Carriers are making 50K ( with junk mail bonus), as does the average Helicopter Pilot in Canada. Sure they work more hours, but what is missing is the cost of education. We paid for ours.

An operator can ask for more and more experience as the jobs become more scarce. Used to be, they say, when you applied for a job the Operator would ask, " how much Flap time do you have?", because not all airplanes had Flaps. Now, they all have Flaps, so they ask, " how much Float time do you have?". I remember working in Prince Rupert and talking to the Owner of North Coast Air Service - Jack Anderson. He used to say, " If a Pilot has a Commercial Ticket, and Float Endorsement - he should be able to do the job. Never mind hours." I agree, a certain amount of natural ability is what makes the difference between a Pilot and a Flyer. Anyway, it's simply the law of economics - supply and demand. Lots of Pilots with high time say the low timers should hold fast for more money. But, they never.

Why are Bush Pilots, "Blue Collar" workers, and Airline Pilots wear white shirts ( all be it, some of them stuffed )? It reminds of Quesnel this summer. We were fishing and the Mill was shut down for maintenance which they do every six months. They had tradesmen up from the Southern US, because not enough locally. No union, but they were paid the same due to supply and demand.


Trick is to publish the names of the bad companies on a forum such as this with your experience, and, "black ball em" or embarass them to make changes.

[supercub7]

Per diem???

[Indanao]

Edited

[supercub7]

Tough crowd.

[glideric]

Pilots:
aircraft used: C185
pay per month,: 3000
hours worked flying/other :480 hrs last season
any overtime pay : No
housing included or not: Included
time off: 1 day a week and 1 week per season
perks if any: Good place for dirt bike
area of flying: Quebec

[Idriveplane]

aircraft used: mostly DHC2 summer, at times C185 FBA2 winter
pay per month,: 4250
hours worked flying/other: 700 hrs last 12 months (slow year)
any overtime pay : No
housing included or not: Neg
time off: here and there, 2 weeks for xmas
perks if any: living in a decent summer town
area of flying: NWO

[GoinNowhereFast]

So from what I understand, minimum pay should work out to
Dock: $2000/mo
180 or equivalent: $3000/mo
Beaver: $5000/mo
Otter: $8000/mo

[Big red dog]

Damn, sounds pretty rough. As a low timer myself i can definitely sympathize with you guys, some of these operators are pretty cheap. As for my situation...

aircraft used: Bell 206 Jetranger, Robinson 44
pay per month: 3200 salary, 20$ a flight hour
hours worked flying/other: usually 8-5 off the base, some weekends and nighttime ground runs. Just made the camp rotation last month and now doing 3/1 rotations and averaging about 50-80 hours each rotation. The week off is usually not a problem with management as long as i give them a heads up. Living in Fort st John is a little expensive, but Im rarely there anyways.

perks if any: Flying turbine and piston, rotation, great company, good pay. What more can I ask for?
area of flying: The oil patch

Got hired on in sept 2008 with 100 hours, worked my bag off all winter building conference rooms
and offices, by july 2009 had the r44 and 206 endorsement, and hopefully by the end of the seson (December) ill have about 350 hours.

Believe me, everyday i say thankyou for my luck especially in such a bad year for everybody. Good luck in the new year boys!

Way to go----give 100% get 100% if not this job it will be the next.

Give 50% you get the Idea

My Advise in this industry make your own way build your rep and you can ask your price.

You reputation is everything --- this is a small industry .

[beaverbob]

Bush Pay: Whatever you can get or keep looking.
BB