IFR Briefings

[aircraftnut1966]

Question to all, Being a newbie single pilot IFR certified 172 driver I was taught the amorts method, I still use this method to reinforce when flying IFR what the heck I am about to do! Oh by the way there is no way I am going to mins on any approach for the next oh say 100 hrs as I do not feel completely comfortable with this, perhaps with a seasoned IFR veteran sitting beside me but for now it is marginal VFR! I thought it was our responsibility to ensure current charts prior to flight? So I never understood effective date issue, If I am missing something would love to be clarified as to why.
Thanks

[imfsub12]

Just to make sure you are using the right ones.. - as you might have an old set in the plane, that you forgot to take out..

[Youngback]

The effective date listed on the page you are using in the CAP charts will also say what the reason for the change was. Some are minor, being a frequency change. Others involve replacement of the navaids in question and even moving them in some cases. The entire book is replaced every 56 days but the one chart in particular may have remained the same for years.

[paydaymayday]

I gave up the AMORTS style long ago. Try to brief it like you will fly it - in sequence and procedurally, step by step - and you will remember it much better.

[Tim]

i would argue that AMORTS runs through things in the order you need to know them during a briefing. i use it now, i didn't always. i like it for the training environment especially because it tells the student to look for things or think about things that but that they might not consider yet or forgot about, and stuff i can only nag them about for so long. i think until the experience is there things have to be done as close to the same way every time as operational circumstances allow.

as for the date on the plates, you can get subscriptions to plates either digitally or to print off, in that case the date on the plate may change with every new issues.

i know that on the navcan plates the date is just the last change, so when i teach AMORTS to my students i remind them that we need to check to ensure our plates are current at the start of the flight so we will know when it time to actually do the appch.

it is also handy in the case of similar appchs to the same runway or parallel runways, just to do that double check on the runway number and actual appch title.

[Big Pistons Forever]

One of the problems with approach checks in a training environment is that all the approaches tend to be to the same 2 or 3 airports. After doing the standard training routes a whole bunch of times in the simulator and then the airplane the student has effectively memorized all the data. So much so that I find the students often stop looking at he approach plate during the approach and the brief just becomes another item in the IFR ride tick box with out a lot of actual thought applied to the "so what " of the the information. This is OK if you never intend to fly IFR to any other airport but is an example where the pressures of having to teach to pass the ride rather than IFR in a more wholistic sense does not necessarily engender the best possible habits.

Aircraft nut: A suggestion. Pull out your CAP and open it to a random page. Imagine you were at 8000 ft and the airport is directly ahead of you at 20 miles on a heading of 180, now study the plate for 2 minuites or so and then brief the approach to yourself. Now wait 5 minutes and without looking at the plate mentally fly the whole approach and the first part of the missed. Now review the plate. If you understood the complete route of flight to the landing and got the killer numbers (step down fixes, DH/MDA, heading for the first leg of the missed) your brief is working. If it did not ask yourself why not.

Unrelated.... but IMO if intial IFR flight tests started with a short simulator trip which required the student to do an approach to an airport they had never seen before the pass rate would be cut in half.

[Pugster]

As already stated in a previous thread...

The effective date, while maybe not important to review in single pilot operations (the important thing there is ensuring your charts are up-to-date), is very important when flying multi-crew to make sure both pilots have the same approach plate in front of them. So it's a good habit to introduce early on in the briefs.

....kick me a PM if you're still monitoring this site...I'm curious as to why you (and others) not posting and think it's a big loss for a lot of the up-and-comers.

[767]

....kick me a PM if you're still monitoring this site...I'm curious as to why you (and others) not posting and think it's a big loss for a lot of the up-and-comers.

It only makes sense to post on this site if you agree with everyone about a specific topic. If you disagree or have different views, some get offended and a war breaks out. So i think that "." is trying to avoid an "unneccessary" avcanada war.

Of course, there might be other reasons.

As far as the breifings go, if AMORTS works for you, then use it. If your briefing is long, there is nothing wrong with it. Every breifing depends on the situation. My advice is that if your flying, and require a long breifing, then breif yourself in advance, as far back as possible.

[Cat Driver]

Hi Pugster:

Yes I still read the site quite often, I am taking a holiday from posting here to see if it will result in less conflict as I got tired of the guaranteed response from a few who never missed any opportunity to find fault regardless of what I said.

For me the straw that broke the camels back so to speak was the vicious attack on Hedley by a poster here.

[sky's the limit]

Anyhow it would seem that my not posting is not really changing much anyhow except there being one less poster.

I beg to differ.

There has been a pretty significant change in the content of posts in the last month in terms of tone and nature, the only thing missing is your input, and that would be welcomed back at any time. We've had to edit a lot less vitriol out of posts lately, and while there will always be some, I think the change in moderation has made a bit of a difference so far.

stl

[Cat Driver]

I removed my comment regarding the tone of posting.

[sky's the limit]

I removed my comment regarding the tone of posting.

Either way, nice to have you back around....

Now, what's this about IFR briefings? I had a co-pilot in Jamaica who used to cross himself.... that's about as briefed as I got on his leg (note the singular...).

stl