To File, or Not to File....

[Doc]

I don't file IFR if I don't need to. I'm talking 100 mile legs etc. here. I don't fly IMC in controlled airspace without a clearance, and I file longer legs, where flight in the flight levels makes sense, and saves fuel.
But, I don't file, for example, Kenora to Red Lake. Or Dryden to Sioux Lookout. Or Red to Pickle. That way, I don't get clearances to "maintain runway heading" for several miles, or minutes. I don't have to wait for a clearance on a nice sunny day because some inbound hasn't canceled. I think it's just more efficient to remain outside the "system" at times.
The thing is, I fly with guys (so do you) who file on every leg. I don't think I'm being lazy here. I don't have to worry about updating departure times, waiting for clearances etc. To me, this just makes sense.
Thoughts?

[Rockie]

Lazy?

Let's see. You fly your airplane more efficiently while not burdening the IFR system unnecessarily, and without compromising safety in any way.

Good job mate.

[ScudRunner]

Green airspace means go! Your perfectly in the rules giver bro.

[Benwa]

I kinda like the added safety layer the flightplan gives me, even in uncontrolled airspace.

Not that I don't trust our flight following but I like having center looking for me if I'm late giving my departure time.

[AuxBatOn]

Some people may not be comfortable flying VFR for a few reasons, but particularly:

1- As Benwa mentionned, it gives them an added layer of protection.
2- It is much easier to get in trouble flying VFR (violations).

[Benwa]

I think Doc was talking about flying IFR without a flight plan in uncontrolled airspace.

[Doc]

Some people may not be comfortable flying VFR for a few reasons, but particularly:

1- As Benwa mentionned, it gives them an added layer of protection.
2- It is much easier to get in trouble flying VFR (violations).

Is it really "an added layer" of protection? "Protection" from what? Or is that just between the pilot's ears? I feel pretty confident in my ability to fly 100 or so miles without the "guidance" provided by ATC.
I can't imagine how flying VFR could open the door to more violations. I've yet to "blow through" an assigned altitude while flying VFR? As stated, I file in IMC within controlled airspace.

On the same subject, I don't understand why pilots "hang on to" an IFR in very good VMC, till they're down and clear. IMHO, it unnecessarily clogs up, and slows down the whole system.

[Hot Fuel]

Stand bye one while I put my devils advocate hat on…Isn’t that putting company financial concerns ahead of passenger safety? How does the COM read with respect to filing? You must have rock solid faith in your flight following system, what would your passengers say if you told them before they boarded that you have decided not to file a flight plan because you can save a minute or two and a couple of bucks in fuel costs…I can hear it now…``Well folks just thought you should all know that nobody knows we are in the air or what time we are expected, if something goes bad it could be a long time before anybody comes looking. On the upside my decision not to file a flight plan means I’ll save my company a couple of bucks in operating costs.``

[paydaymayday]

I'd rather file a plan no matter what, really. If it is a decent day, I'd prefer to file IFR and take a VFR departure and climb; or if it's a really nice day, I would file VFR outright.

And of course, I always cancel ASAP on the approach if it helps move things along. (Wish some others would... what company name is missing an A)

I understand that non-radar and uncontrolled IFR can be a pain in the ass at times, but when I follow these rules, it seems to work out okay at most times. I just think filing is an added layer of safety with having someone else looking for your late ass as well as your company. I don't have issues with my dispatch, but perhaps some others would be willing to formulate a reason that the aircraft hasn't met their arrival time and wait patiently.

[AuxBatOn]

Is it really "an added layer" of protection? "Protection" from what? Or is that just between the pilot's ears? I feel pretty confident in my ability to fly 100 or so miles without the "guidance" provided by ATC.

Again, this may be perceived, but generally, if you are talking to center, they have an idea of where you are. If you, god forbid, plow it in, they may have a better idea of where to find you.

I can't imagine how flying VFR could open the door to more violations. I've yet to "blow through" an assigned altitude while flying VFR? As stated, I file in IMC within controlled airspace.

You are not going to unintentionally fly through restricted airspace, over fur farms, provincial parks, etc flying IFR. If you can't level off at the proper altitude, with an autopilot or a second pilot, I think there is a big problem. That's why I say VFR opens the door to violations.

[Benwa]

I guess it all depends on where you fly out of... I wont get any clearance from ATC. They are just doing my flight following. It's uncontrolled airspace... so won't get stuck in a hold or any thing like that. They are just faster than my dispatch at realizing I'm late for something.

As for canceling IFR... yup I cancel as soon as I am in visual conditions and out of class A or B airspace.

[mcrit]

On the same subject, I don't understand why pilots "hang on to" an IFR in very good VMC,

...SOPs?

Other than that I'm with you Doc, I prefer to go VFR when possible.

[Doc]

Stand bye one while I put my devils advocate hat on…Isn’t that putting company financial concerns ahead of passenger safety? How does the COM read with respect to filing? You must have rock solid faith in your flight following system, what would your passengers say if you told them before they boarded that you have decided not to file a flight plan because you can save a minute or two and a couple of bucks in fuel costs…I can hear it now…``Well folks just thought you should all know that nobody knows we are in the air or what time we are expected, if something goes bad it could be a long time before anybody comes looking. On the upside my decision not to file a flight plan means I’ll save my company a couple of bucks in operating costs.``

Hot Fuel.....lets assume the company knows where you're at. Okay? In my case they sure do. Otherwise.....file, for sure.

[sky's the limit]

When I was still in airplanes this baffled me too when flying South of 60, but I came to the realization that as fewer and fewer young pilots go through the traditional routes of flying, ie. the VFR bush/PIC route, the trend has changed. When you cut your teeth flying long hours VFR on your own you become very comfortable in that environment. Many guys I flew with down south started off in right seat roles on IFR ops and never developed a comfort level with VFR flight, particularly in marginal conditions - which is perfectly safe.

From Alaska to Baffin, you're not talking to anyone ever, you get used to it. I suppose hearing ATC in your ear 100% of the time builds a certain dependence.

stl

[Hot Fuel]

I haven’t taken my hat off quite yet…What does the COM say on the topic of filing? Does it put a limit the conditions, read distance, on when a flight plan need not be filed?

I have worked for four different companies and in every instance there was a 25 mile clause in the COM.

That said if allowed under your COM and you have competent flight following proceed direct!

Hats coming off now…

[Lurch]

I have to agree with Doc

I never file VFR, and I only file IFR when I have to.

Some of the airports I visit have restricted airspace close by and if I'm IFR they take me on a 100nm detour around the airspace. If I'm VFR I only have to go 10nm out of the way.

This has only been a problem once. A couple weeks ago I was on an itinerary from GP to Fort Nelson. The weather was forecasted to be nothing below 7000' while enroute it dropped to 700'. I called Centre and air filed the IFR, problem solved.

We have a system in place where I set an arrival time, then if I forget to notify my "Dispatcher" within 30 minutes of landing, we both get an e-mail.

If I'm IFR, I cancel the IFR as soon as I switch over to the MF. One of my biggest complaints I have is when others don't cancel.

It's amazing how nice and quiet 126.7 gets once you get out of ear shot range of YYC.


Lurch

[paydaymayday]

We have a system in place where I set an arrival time, then if I forget to notify my "Dispatcher" within 30 minutes of landing, we both get an e-mail.

I love this concept. How do you have it set up?

[Hot Fuel]

Just out of curiosity I took a peek at the CAR`s and low and behold it wasn’t coincidence that all four of my previous employers used 25 miles in their COM`s as the limit for not requiring a flight plan to be filed.

Requirement to File a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.73 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in IFR flight unless an IFR flight plan has been filed.
(2) No pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome.
(3) A pilot-in-command may file an IFR flight itinerary instead of an IFR flight plan where
(a) the flight is conducted in part or in whole outside controlled airspace; or
(b) facilities are inadequate to permit the communication of flight plan information to an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.
(4) Notwithstanding anything in this Division, no pilot-in-command shall, unless a flight plan has been filed, operate an aircraft between Canada and a foreign state.

Contents of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.74 A flight plan or flight itinerary shall contain such information as is specified by the Minister in the Canada Flight Supplement.

Filing of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.75 (1) A flight plan shall be filed with an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.
(2) A flight itinerary shall be filed with a responsible person, an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.
(3) A flight plan or flight itinerary shall be filed by
(a) sending, delivering or otherwise communicating the flight plan or flight itinerary or the information contained therein; and
(b) receiving acknowledgement that the flight plan or flight itinerary or the information contained therein has been received.

[sky's the limit]

A great many helicopter companies, including the ones I work for use a in-house flight following system - can't remember the last time I actually filed a plan with NavCan. Works well, particularly as all the machines are Sat Tracked these days.

stl

[Doc]

I haven’t taken my hat off quite yet…What does the COM say on the topic of filing? Does it put a limit the conditions, read distance, on when a flight plan need not be filed?

I have worked for four different companies and in every instance there was a 25 mile clause in the COM.

That said if allowed under your COM and you have competent flight following proceed direct!

Hats coming off now…

Well, if your COM, or SOP call for an IFR flight plan, then you file one. If the wx requires you to file, you do. I'm talking about not filing if your do NOT have to. Cheers.

[iflyforpie]

SOPs are probably the main reason for filing. I know at Flightcraft just before I started there they lost a DC-3 flying low-level VFR over the straight, so they went to 100% IFR ops. The crew of the DC-3 should never have been doing that, but they changed the rules for the lowest common denominator.

Hot Fuel, you can still file a flight itinerary without flight plan. I haven't filed with FSS in four years. Our Operational Flightplan counts as a flight itinerary (it's got the routing, time, passengers, pilot, fuel, and destination does it not) and the dispatcher is the responsible person. We use GPS tracking on our aircraft which IMHO is far better than FSS where radar coverage only goes so far, especially here in the rocks.

[Intentional Left Bank]

VFR in VMC is unquestionably more efficient. On 01 May 1995, IFR in VMC could have played a part in preventing tragedy.

[foxmoth]

Hot Fuel


602.75 states something like leaving an itenerary with a "responsible person."

So, if you leave a flight plan with your company dispatch (who hopefully are responsble ) and they flight follow you with a 'good' system, then you do not need to file outside controlled airspace.

and how about trying to get in somewhere IFR when the controller lazily gives another aircraft the approach 80 miles back and you have to wait? Filing over most of Canada is not efficient. The controllers don't want to know.

[Doc]

VFR in VMC is unquestionably more efficient. On 01 May 1995, IFR in VMC could have played a part in preventing tragedy.

If that was the mid air north of YXL, being on an IFR flight plan in no way absolves you from the responsibility of keeping an eye out for traffic. Want to prevent this sort of thing? Mandate TCAS! And, a VFR aircraft with a transponder shows up on radar for center just as an IFR aircraft's transponder. Bottom line. Eyes open.

[Hot Fuel]

I agree that one can proceed on a “company note” provided all the requirements of 602.74 have been followed.

To sum it up what Doc is really saying is that he doesn’t pick up the phone and file with Nav Canada, rather he communicates with his company dispatch ensuring they have all the pertinent information specified in the CFS. He doesn’t just jump in and blast off…he has a flight plan filed in the form of a flight itinerary with a legal person or facility. To do anything outside of those parameters would be in violation of the regulations.

The only situation in which a flight plan or flight itinerary isn’t required to be filed is if the flight is conducted within 25 miles of the departure aerodrome. The operative word here is filed; there is latitude on what filed actually means.