YYC Rant.

[flyinhigh]

This is just a comment to yeg66..

Good on ya for coming here and explaining and answering questions like this. However no matter what when I come to YYC I am going to bitch cause it keeps me happy. hahaha

cheers man/or chicky

[cyeg66]

This is just a comment to yeg66..

Good on ya for coming here and explaining and answering questions like this. However no matter what when I come to YYC I am going to bitch cause it keeps me happy. hahaha

cheers man/or chicky

That's what we say; "We're not happy til you're not happy".

Cheers

edit: sorry to disappoint but I'm a dude.

[Jaques Strappe]

In defense to the YYC and YYZ controllers when comparing movements of the N.Y airfields LGA, EWR, JFK and TEB. I seriously question sometimes the safety of those operations. Take a look at EWR for instance. The SID departure off RWY 22R totally conflicts with the missed approach procedure of 22L. How can they clear someone for an ILS 22L ( which also clears the pilot for the missed approach ) then knowingly depart an aircraft from 22R with an immediate left turn right across the missed approach path of 22L? Personally, I am happy we don't see that sort of thing here. I know they try to stagger departures and arrivals in EWR but that is an accident in the waiting in my opinion.

So they are playing with a different set of rules, that is very clear and although I get frustrated sometimes with some perceivable inefficiencies here in Canada, I do generally feel safer in Canadian airspace.

[seniorpumpkin]

I have a question if I may (more of a hijack, hope you don't mind)
I remember hearing a suggestion to cut down on fuel costs that seemed like a pretty good idea. Instead of everyone starting up on the ramp, taxiing, then waiting in line to depart, why not get towed by a tug along the taxiways until they are number two or three for departure, then start the engines. I'm not a jet guy so I clearly have no concept, but this just seems like a great idea and I'm wondering what kind of barriers exist for this system.
I can guess at a couple things preventing this from happening- perhaps it's a matter of needing a separate taxi way/road for the tug to get out of the way. Perhaps there is a big danger in having ramp guys running around disconnecting the tug on an active taxi way. Perhaps it's because the engines need some time to get going before they go to full take-off power. Maybe the on-board APU isn't cut out for supplying the power required for this. Anyways, some insight would be appreciated, I chose this thread because we've got jet guys and controllers here to shed light on the subject. PM me if you prefer to have this thread stay on topic.

[Lowjack]

I know the towing a/c to the runway thread has come up many times over at airliners.net, apparently one of the big disadvantages is the damage that can be caused to the nose gear by having it pulled by tugs that much more.

[AirMail]

Few reason it won't work; too long of a time to disconnected and go thorough After start, Before take off checklists. In the winter especially, you'll have colder engine temps on take off. What if the tug breaks down on the taxi way, especially when there are others behind it. Again this time of year, there's a need to deice. Just some examples off the top of my head. Things do for the most part get crazy in YYC more so during the peak times and wx, but it's been like that for yrs. and I haven't any problems personally with them or YEG ACC over the past few yrs, certainly not the kind experienced in YYZ or JFK.

[Intentional Left Bank]

I have a question if I may (more of a hijack, hope you don't mind)
I remember hearing a suggestion to cut down on fuel costs that seemed like a pretty good idea. Instead of everyone starting up on the ramp, taxiing, then waiting in line to depart, why not get towed by a tug along the taxiways until they are number two or three for departure, then start the engines.

WheelTug?

[seniorpumpkin]

WheelTug?

That sounds like a pretty good idea, I wonder if it would be underpowered, but that looks like it would solve a lot of the logistical problems.

[Donald]

In defense to the YYC and YYZ controllers when comparing movements of the N.Y airfields LGA, EWR, JFK and TEB. I seriously question sometimes the safety of those operations. Take a look at EWR for instance. The SID departure off RWY 22R totally conflicts with the missed approach procedure of 22L. How can they clear someone for an ILS 22L ( which also clears the pilot for the missed approach ) then knowingly depart an aircraft from 22R with an immediate left turn right across the missed approach path of 22L? Personally, I am happy we don't see that sort of thing here. I know they try to stagger departures and arrivals in EWR but that is an accident in the waiting in my opinion.

Using YEG as the example, how is it any different when you have an arrival on 20 simultaneous to an arrival on 12? (Or arriving on 30 and 02 simultaneous) A go-around could get tight very quickly.

[cyeg66]

Using YEG as the example, how is it any different when you have an arrival on 20 simultaneous to an arrival on 12? (Or arriving on 30 and 02 simultaneous) A go-around could get tight very quickly.

You've got almost 2 miles to do something. Not that scary. Those in YYC are uglier (and much more frequent). YEG has like 1 unplanned missed approach/year. (Ok, I threw in a little exaggeration for effect)

[Johnny#5]

Not sure, but if the winds allow couldn't rwy 28 and 07 be used together more often? Can't even remember the approach on 07...

Its too bad years ago they didnt try and make 28 and 25 parallel, though I really don't know anything about the construction history of YYC.

Oh well, I guess the sooner the new 34/16 is built, the better....maybe all the YYC folks should send a letter in urging more urgency on the matter.

[foxmoth]

the most logic new runway in CYYC is a parallel 28-10.
when the wind she blows, she blows from the west.
of course, they have built warehouses all over the necesary real estate to do that.

Like someone said 'just like the city." Clagary is such a horses ass mess.

[cyeg66]

At 14,000 feet long and 200 (250?) wide, the new 34R/16L will give lots of room for error on landing in 25kt crosswinds. But yes, there will be days when the wind is 250 @ 45 and only 28/25 will be usable. There is no instrument approach on 7, and jets can't use it, only props (which is awfully rare).

[burly]

Ill throw my 2 cents in the ring too. TC threw a little gem at us a few months ago too. If there is any cloud below 4000 then we have to run an IFR CRDA mode for spacing at the intersection. So a great VFR day with cloud FEW 2500 and guess what, we have to run an IFR mode. This takes our rate from 35 down to 25. Ten planes an hour to move to a different time slot. Very frustrating but totally out of our hands. Thanks to our friends in Ottawa for that one.

I do encourage pilots to come on over to the ACC and plug in to watch. We are always more than happy to show off our trade, now if only we could get the cockpit fam flights back.....


KR
YYC Term

[shitdisturber]

This is just a comment to yeg66..

Good on ya for coming here and explaining and answering questions like this. However no matter what when I come to YYC I am going to bitch cause it keeps me happy. hahaha

cheers man/or chicky

That's what we say; "We're not happy til you're not happy".

Cheers

edit: sorry to disappoint but I'm a dude.

You stole TC's motto??? Well that's not very nice!

[cyeg66]

You stole TC's motto??? Well that's not very nice!

Universal in the world of aviation, really. Starts in the upper ranks of management and seeps downward.


GW
YYC Term

[Dockjock]

yeg66, great comments. I'll add the point that as pilots we're not saying you suck, we're saying YYC sucks.

Notwithstanding all the explanation provided, which is enlightening, the fact still remains that YYC operates in delay mode frequently in VMC and is generally a substandard airport when it comes to commercial scheduled ops. I was based there for a time on a turboprop, and now fly back in there regularly in an airbus. Our mandate from the passengers who pay our, and NavCan's, and Transport's, and the airport authority's (and just about everybody else in this entire business's salaries through the tax, fee, tax, tax structure) is to operate on time. We are selling speed, not safety. Safety is implied, and it is our number 1 priority as operators, but it is not what we are SELLING. We are selling SPEED.

YYC is not fast, and therefore it sucks.

[CCR]

Yeg66...thanks for your insight here on the forum. Much appreciated. Myself and my co-worker had the chance to tour your office back in August. Learned lot's and had the chance to talk to a couple of terminal guys who asked us questions. That was great and really wish we could recip. by having you guys/gals come into the flightdeck for a flight. It's hard to be mad at someone when you know them and like them!! Happy Holidays!

[cyeg66]

Yeg66...thanks for your insight here on the forum. Much appreciated. Myself and my co-worker had the chance to tour your office back in August. Learned lot's and had the chance to talk to a couple of terminal guys who asked us questions. That was great and really wish we could recip. by having you guys/gals come into the flightdeck for a flight. It's hard to be mad at someone when you know them and like them!! Happy Holidays!

???
Tall dark haired fella and tall blonde girl? If so, I was one of those terminal guys. Visits to flight decks would be nice but, hélas, NavCan happened....

Yes, YYC is slow. A big problem with the current arrangement is a lack of flexibility. The arrival rate is limited by the distance we have to put between airplanes. We can't just tighten them up by our own volition. Well, theoretically you could if you enjoy hearing the supervisor phone ringing and getting your a$$ hauled into the manger's office. Some tower controllers are really good at reaching out to us and allowing us to tighten up the approaches. Problem is, not all don't. Small things like that sometimes make the two units fall back to the lowest common denominator. As the saying goes: "you can only be as good as your worst <controller>". Granted, from the tower's perspective, they sometimes get $hit spacing from us.... Tough to get those winds just right sometimes.

Cheers