Airspace Question

[Typhoon]

Hi there,

Just a quick question regarding airspace. Can special VFR be granted in a Class "E" Control Zone?

Also, I've never really been told, but when flying in Class E airways, what frequency would you tune to? Would it be your 126.7 or is it something else because it is controlled?

Thanks.

[ywgflyboy]

Special VFR yes, because it is "controlled airspace"

On air-way, 126.7. Of course since VFR is not controlled on E airway, you could be a complete jerk and not tune anything. Your life on the line though

[mcrit]

Special VFR yes, because it is "controlled airspace"

On air-way, 126.7. Of course since VFR is not controlled on E airway, you could be a complete jerk and not tune anything. Your life on the line though

Not quite...
SVFR is only for use in control zones. It is meant to get you in or out of the aerodrome. You can't get it on an airway, but you can get it at an aerodrome with a class E control zone. You would request it through the PAL at that aerodrome.

[Typhoon]

Sweet, thanks a lot.

[ywgflyboy]

Special VFR yes, because it is "controlled airspace"

On air-way, 126.7. Of course since VFR is not controlled on E airway, you could be a complete jerk and not tune anything. Your life on the line though

Not quite...
SVFR is only for use in control zones. It is meant to get you in or out of the aerodrome. You can't get it on an airway, but you can get it at an aerodrome with a class E control zone. You would request it through the PAL at that aerodrome.

Thanks for clarifying, was multi-tasking and didn't quite write what I was thinking

[mcrit]

No worries, what you were saying was clear on second reading (first reading was way to early in the morning for me).

[RFlyer]

Well actually it seems you _can_ request SVFR in class E airspace according to the Transport Canada airspace chart - TP 6010

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/aerod ... tp6010.jpg

It's hard to make out, but the SVFR row (down to the left of the big red NO VFR circle) has YES in columns B, C, D, and E.

RF

[ywgflyboy]

Well actually it seems you _can_ request SVFR in class E airspace according to the Transport Canada airspace chart - TP 6010

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/aerod ... tp6010.jpg

It's hard to make out, but the SVFR row (down to the left of the big red NO VFR circle) has YES in columns B, C, D, and E.

RF

Yes but SVFR is intended to allow an aircraft to land and takeoff. If you are on an a class E airway, your intentions are not to take off or land, they are to navigate. If you are flying in a class E surrounding an aerodrome, then yes, you can.

That is how I would interpret it anyways.

[mcrit]

From the CARs

Special VFR Flight

602.117 (1) Notwithstanding paragraph 602.114(b), an aircraft may be operated in special VFR flight within a control zone if

Neither the CARs nor the AIM mention SVFR on an airway.

[mathewc]

A good example of where you can get SVFR in Class E is in Sarnia.

[kevenv]

As far as ATC is concerned, SVFR is applicable in a control zone. The definition in our rule book is:

SPECIAL VFR FLIGHT (SVFR) — Visual flight authorized by an ATC unit to operate within a control
zone under meteorological conditions that are below VFR weather conditions. (emphasis mine)

Outside of a control zone, in class E airspace we have zero say in what you do during your VFR flight. You don't have to talk to me and if you do decide to, you don't have to do what I say (not that I would control you in class E airspace). My point is that as far as I am concerned, do whatever you want in class E airspace outside of a control zone. If you encounter inadvertent IMC and are not IFR equipped or certified, do what you have to do to keep it safe. I will of course authorize SVFR for you to get into a control zone and land. Outside of that you don't need my OK.

[kevenv]

Well actually it seems you _can_ request SVFR in class E airspace according to the Transport Canada airspace chart - TP 6010

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/aerod ... tp6010.jpg

It's hard to make out, but the SVFR row (down to the left of the big red NO VFR circle) has YES in columns B, C, D, and E.

RF

There are class E control zones out there.

[robshelle]

If I remember correctly, Class E Control Zones are FSS type airports (Fort St. John, Grande Prairie for example, they used to be class D in my flying days, I make myself sound so old). Even though they are not technically a controlled airport, the zone is protected in bad weather to ensure IFR aircraft with protection during departure and arrival phases. Flying out of Dawson Creek (years ago) I was once denied SVFR until a DHC8 landed.
It's been a while since I've been an IFR pilot, but if you are flying SVFR on an airway, wouldn't you generally be below the minimum altitudes for the airway anyways?

Robbie Benusic
CYEG Tower

[navajo]

if you are flying SVFR on an airway, wouldn't you generally be below the minimum altitudes for the airway anyways?

Like it been said previously, SVFR = for controlled zone only.

[mcrit]

If I remember correctly, Class E Control Zones are FSS type airports

Not all of them. Peterborough is a good example, class E CZ but has a unicom ground station. Same with Sarnia and Hanover if memory serves.

[gustind]

If I remember correctly, Class E Control Zones are FSS type airports

Not all of them. Peterborough is a good example, class E CZ but has a unicom ground station. Same with Sarnia and Hanover if memory serves.

Sarnia yes. Hanover no.

[x-wind]

SVFR is only for control zones. You have to request SVFR from the ground station and its granted if they don't think you'll be conflicting with other traffic (often times they'll call ATC -for IFR traffic info- and confirm no one is inbound for an approach or departure)

Just a side note- airways are indeed controlled airspace, therefore controlled airspace WX minimums applies. This is because the IFR traffic on that airway has to be protected from bumping into you- its only see and avoid!

So if the WX is below controlled airspace minimums IN YOUR OPINION then you should stay out of it! One option is to go underneath airways as they start at 2,200ft AGL.

[howard40]

Yes the "plan" for special vfr is to fly "under" or "off" airway as required and then get approval for special vfr.
this is only to ensure traffic separation from ifr stuff in the zone. Otherwise we would have a system of vfr minima in canada with nowhere to land (apart from private strips etc)
Most mormally in bad weather this means "under" the airways, till you knock on atc's door for permission to come into the zone and land.