Cancelling IFR/VFR Departure

[fliplip]

Why is it that ATC (ie Tower) can solicit an IFR aircraft to depart VFR but the IFR controller (Centre/Terminal) cannot ask an arriving IFR aircraft if they are able to cancel IFR when arriving? For arguement sake I'm talking about wide open VFR here, not iffy wx where the arriving pilot may go back into IMC.

[Jerricho]

I don't have MANOPS in front of me, but I distinctly remember something in Section 4 directly referencing "pilot request" for VFR release.

RAC 6.2.2 only mentions the pilot request. I guess a well worded "Well, I can't get you out IFR" could be used. Semantics???

As to arrivals canceling, once again pilots request, but we daily ask our IFR training aircraft (especially the B412s) if they are able to conduct their holds/approaches/missed approaches VFR, as it changes the separation requirements, especially for a planned missed approach.

[ywgflyboy]

All of my resources only mention the use of a VFR departure in the event the IFR clc could not be relayed before your time of departure. So I pull up to the holdshort line and GND has not yet received an IFR for me, I could ask to get going and pick the clc up in the air. I assume this would only happen at smaller airport underlying TCA's?

We would routinely cancel our IFR during training flights while I was in my IFR training program. Not sure if all instructors did, but my instructor encouraged me to always offer the VFR to the guys in YWG if conditions permitted. It is worth the offer and it didn't change our plans at all, but could help out the ATC. Sometimes they would come back and say it would not give them any operational advantage and asked us again to confirm if we actually wanted to cancel.

[SAR_YQQ]

Semantics...

I have had ATC say - "Can't do that IFR...." or "If you cancel IFR, we can fit that approach in..."

Quite frankly, if you are 100% VMC, why not cancel IFR? They still provide flight following, vectors, etc. It just helps with the IFR separation.

We routinely cancel IFR on the short hop back from YWG to YPG - our students have had their ATC exposure for the other 2 legs, the return 40 mile leg is not an issue VFR.

[Pratt X 3]

Quite frankly, if you are 100% VMC, why not cancel IFR?

Some commercial operators are not approved to operate VFR. For example, no night VFR as listed on the Specific Conditions Part II page of the Air Operator Certificate.

[Lurch]

I had an embarrassing one a few weeks ago

I was inbound to YLW at 16,000' and Centre asked about my approach, I said I was going to cancel in a few miles once I was clear of the gliding area. I got to the south side and called centre back cancelling the IFR. Centre came back with the unexpected "unable" then before the next words had come out of his mouth I had that duh moment.

Lurch

[Wburns]

I really like this forum. It seems that its the only one where people aren't hacking each other to bits and I actually learn something quite regularly. But can you explain a bit more Lurch I don't really understand. Maybe its obvious if I pulled out a chart or something but go ahead. I'm the embarrassed one.

[husky]

Presumably because at 16,000 he's in class B airspace, and therefore cannot cancel IFR.

[Lurch]

I really like this forum. It seems that its the only one where people aren't hacking each other to bits and I actually learn something quite regularly. But can you explain a bit more Lurch I don't really understand. Maybe its obvious if I pulled out a chart or something but go ahead. I'm the embarrassed one.

Don't be embarrassed, like I said I missed this one also.

As Husky, said it's Class B airspace above 12,500' so you either have to be IFR or controlled VFR. So cancelling wouldn't work because you still require a clearance for controlled VFR.

ATC gave me a descent and as I passed through 12,500' they came back and let me cancel.

The only other time I was just as embarrassed is one day flying level at 20,000 ATC mentioned they were reading us 400' out. Little did I know they were giving us a nice hint that we screwed up and forgot to set 29.92.


Lurch

[Wburns]

Presumably because at 16,000 he's in class B airspace, and therefore cannot cancel IFR.

Oh yeah....duh

[RVgrin]

Presumably because at 16,000 he's in class B airspace, and therefore cannot cancel IFR.

Oh yeah....duh

Not a "duh" if you don't know the area, is it?

[RVgrin]

Of course the pilots should know, but not neccessarily the readers of this forum who might not know the route of the described flight. The aircraft could very well have been in class G airspace at 16,000 feet, so it was not a "duh" question, IMHO.