If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
We've had about 4 military controllers try and come over to nav can where I work and not one came even close to checking out. Not to disrespect I just think the job is a tad different.
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invertedattitude
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Sarcasm man, sarcasm.W0XOF wrote:I think you've missed the point.invertedattitude wrote:You can learn all of those things for free... it's called the military, and you'll have a good chance at a job too.
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justplanecrazy
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Braun, you're clueless!!!
The big difference between NC's training program and university is that there is only one Air Traffic Control employer and you have an 80% chance of failure. You either have to be a pretty big gambler or a cocky son of a bitch to put any money on those odds. And unlike almost any other vocation, it doesn't matter what your IQ is or how hard you study, you still might not get it.
University may be 4 times as long but if at any point, you realize that you're not cutout for the career you're studying for, you can transfer all of your credits to work towards your new major. Also when you finish and you apply with one employer and don't make the cut, you can walk down the street and apply with the next one. Everyone I know that went through University and really tried for a career in their specialty, got one. That's a big difference to the 80% of students in an ATC course that never get one.
Even if a university grad can't find a job in their specialty, they can still put their degree on their resume and use it for other jobs. You'd be surprised how many positions require a degree of any specialty. After you get fired from NC, do you really want to tell your future employer about it?
Most university courses allow you enough free time to easily swing a pretty steady part time job on the side along with study time. Working while handling the stress and studying required for ATC training is not suggested.
If you think that an engineers, doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, computer techs, etc. salary is not even close to what you will make as ATC, then I think you haven't looked into it. If you think that any of them would want to make what we make and have to work shift work, then I think you're really hitting the sauce heavy! Even Rig Pigs with no education make what we make.
Braun, if you were part of the majority that never made it, you'd be singing a much different tune.
If the company told the applicants that are refinancing their homes and uprooting their families in order to train for ATC, that they have a 1 in 5 chance of receiving a job, then I'd have no problem with the tuition and no pay. Unfortunately very few applicants are aware of that stat until they walk into the classroom.
The big difference between NC's training program and university is that there is only one Air Traffic Control employer and you have an 80% chance of failure. You either have to be a pretty big gambler or a cocky son of a bitch to put any money on those odds. And unlike almost any other vocation, it doesn't matter what your IQ is or how hard you study, you still might not get it.
University may be 4 times as long but if at any point, you realize that you're not cutout for the career you're studying for, you can transfer all of your credits to work towards your new major. Also when you finish and you apply with one employer and don't make the cut, you can walk down the street and apply with the next one. Everyone I know that went through University and really tried for a career in their specialty, got one. That's a big difference to the 80% of students in an ATC course that never get one.
Even if a university grad can't find a job in their specialty, they can still put their degree on their resume and use it for other jobs. You'd be surprised how many positions require a degree of any specialty. After you get fired from NC, do you really want to tell your future employer about it?
Most university courses allow you enough free time to easily swing a pretty steady part time job on the side along with study time. Working while handling the stress and studying required for ATC training is not suggested.
If you think that an engineers, doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, computer techs, etc. salary is not even close to what you will make as ATC, then I think you haven't looked into it. If you think that any of them would want to make what we make and have to work shift work, then I think you're really hitting the sauce heavy! Even Rig Pigs with no education make what we make.
Braun, if you were part of the majority that never made it, you'd be singing a much different tune.
If the company told the applicants that are refinancing their homes and uprooting their families in order to train for ATC, that they have a 1 in 5 chance of receiving a job, then I'd have no problem with the tuition and no pay. Unfortunately very few applicants are aware of that stat until they walk into the classroom.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
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invertedattitude
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Well said JPC.
A post like that needs to be sung from the rooftops IMO.
A post like that needs to be sung from the rooftops IMO.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Well for one I am not clueless. As I have been to university and decided to have my go at ATC. I understand what you mean about if I would of been CT'ed but even talking to my Nav Canada classmates that didn't make it they don't feel they wasted their time, they did there best and now they know it's not for them. Was it a risk? Of course, but so is going to university and realizing 1/2 way through you don't even like what you are doing. Of course you can argue the credits that you can transfer but there are some base courses that you need that aren't always given each semester and that can extend your degree quite a bit. I don't know what school you went to but 2 years of university is A LOT more expensive than the 6-12 months it will take you to train at NAV until you get paid.
I think you realllly misunderstood what I meant about the salary. I know a lot of people make a lot more money than I do or ever will. What I am saying is that the transition time to making 0$ to a very decent salary with very very good benefits is relatively small in the scheme of things. While your actual income is lets say 130k the first year, once you add benefits you are almost at 180-200k. Is that anything to complain about?
You mention the shift work as if it was a nuisance. Mostly everyone where I work love the shift work. It allows them to be home for the kids, more days off in a row and the ability to "make" your own schedule to your needs. Plus the way shifts are layed out everyone has something that works for them, rarely do I hear complaining about shift work. Maybe it's different elsewhere I don't know. Also a lot of jobs have worse schedules. Doctors are on call 24h a day most of the time, engineers travel a lot and are abroad, depending on where they work obviously. Lawyers work a lot of hours and I can't say it is a job I envy much as my father was one and that is another story.
I do agree with that there are a lot of improvements to be made to the current training system but at the end of the day this job is not cut out for everyone and choosing who does or doesn't have the aptitude is a lot more difficult than people made it sound.
Anyways, I am kind of offended as I do not think myself to be clueless, I just went through the process A-Z and didn't have it easy, loads of debt and had to work during training. I also helped out a lot of new people through various mediums that were looking into ATC both during my training and still today. I don't think you need to be cocky to think you can do the job, you just need hard work, determination and the right skill set to do it and you'll be fine.
I think you realllly misunderstood what I meant about the salary. I know a lot of people make a lot more money than I do or ever will. What I am saying is that the transition time to making 0$ to a very decent salary with very very good benefits is relatively small in the scheme of things. While your actual income is lets say 130k the first year, once you add benefits you are almost at 180-200k. Is that anything to complain about?
You mention the shift work as if it was a nuisance. Mostly everyone where I work love the shift work. It allows them to be home for the kids, more days off in a row and the ability to "make" your own schedule to your needs. Plus the way shifts are layed out everyone has something that works for them, rarely do I hear complaining about shift work. Maybe it's different elsewhere I don't know. Also a lot of jobs have worse schedules. Doctors are on call 24h a day most of the time, engineers travel a lot and are abroad, depending on where they work obviously. Lawyers work a lot of hours and I can't say it is a job I envy much as my father was one and that is another story.
Well without being an ass I ask the question. Did these people even look into what they were getting before they decided to start? I mean come on, anyone with common sense won't just remortgage the house, move the family for a possibility of a job?justplanecrazy wrote:Braun, you're clueless!!!
If the company told the applicants that are refinancing their homes and uprooting their families in order to train for ATC, that they have a 1 in 5 chance of receiving a job, then I'd have no problem with the tuition and no pay. Unfortunately very few applicants are aware of that stat until they walk into the classroom.
I do agree with that there are a lot of improvements to be made to the current training system but at the end of the day this job is not cut out for everyone and choosing who does or doesn't have the aptitude is a lot more difficult than people made it sound.
Anyways, I am kind of offended as I do not think myself to be clueless, I just went through the process A-Z and didn't have it easy, loads of debt and had to work during training. I also helped out a lot of new people through various mediums that were looking into ATC both during my training and still today. I don't think you need to be cocky to think you can do the job, you just need hard work, determination and the right skill set to do it and you'll be fine.
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justplanecrazy
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Braun, I didn't intend to offend you, just wanted to slow up your long winded company chest beating bravado and give the full picture to those looking at applying.
If you can show me where there is a success rate stat posted for new applicants to research prior to accepting their letter of offer, then I wouldn't have reacted to your posts. Unfortunately the only people that know the actual success rates are in head office and they don't exactly make that public. I remember asking that question when I went into my interview and was told a very political, empty answer.
Yes I visited the ACC and towers and researched the job extensively prior to applying. No-one told me that fact. I, as many others also have, assumed that after going through extensive tests and an interview, that they are only accepting me into training based on a secure belief that I had the skill set that would land me a job if I put the effort in. Fortunately I did but when 80% of your classmates usually don't make it, then that should be discussed in the entrance interviews. Most, if not all of my class was shocked at how few applicants actually made it.
Name one other job that 80% of the individuals that pass the entrance exams and tests and are accepted into training, but aren't offered a job.
I usually don't bother posting here anymore but I really feel the need to give the applicants the full picture and save them a world of financial hardship down the road. If a future applicant was researching whether the training program was worth investing in, and only read your posts, it would sound like a win win situation. I actually feel a moral obligation to let applicants know the exact risks involved. God knows most people posting on here won't and the most people wouldn't apply if they knew the exact risks.
By the way, tuition at most Universities in Canada is around $5,000/yr and $1,000 in books but like I said, you can work a job with full time hours through most university majors and the same isn't true in ATC. I had a part time job and full time drinking hours and still got a BA. If you take away the 30k/yr that I made working while attending university, the tuition, is nothing.
If you can show me where there is a success rate stat posted for new applicants to research prior to accepting their letter of offer, then I wouldn't have reacted to your posts. Unfortunately the only people that know the actual success rates are in head office and they don't exactly make that public. I remember asking that question when I went into my interview and was told a very political, empty answer.
Yes I visited the ACC and towers and researched the job extensively prior to applying. No-one told me that fact. I, as many others also have, assumed that after going through extensive tests and an interview, that they are only accepting me into training based on a secure belief that I had the skill set that would land me a job if I put the effort in. Fortunately I did but when 80% of your classmates usually don't make it, then that should be discussed in the entrance interviews. Most, if not all of my class was shocked at how few applicants actually made it.
Name one other job that 80% of the individuals that pass the entrance exams and tests and are accepted into training, but aren't offered a job.
I usually don't bother posting here anymore but I really feel the need to give the applicants the full picture and save them a world of financial hardship down the road. If a future applicant was researching whether the training program was worth investing in, and only read your posts, it would sound like a win win situation. I actually feel a moral obligation to let applicants know the exact risks involved. God knows most people posting on here won't and the most people wouldn't apply if they knew the exact risks.
By the way, tuition at most Universities in Canada is around $5,000/yr and $1,000 in books but like I said, you can work a job with full time hours through most university majors and the same isn't true in ATC. I had a part time job and full time drinking hours and still got a BA. If you take away the 30k/yr that I made working while attending university, the tuition, is nothing.
We have no effective screening methods to make sure pilots are sane.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
— Dr. Herbert Haynes, Federal Aviation Authority.
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full_flaps
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Hi all,
I am seriously considering applying but this thread is scaring me off. I know about the un-paid training but is it true that you might not get an offer after your 9-12 month classroom training??? I had figure if you made it to the classroom you were in.
I am married with two kids, mortgage, etc..Would so love to do this but that is a lot to risk without some job guarantee.
As others have posted, change the system and I'll continue with my application.
I am seriously considering applying but this thread is scaring me off. I know about the un-paid training but is it true that you might not get an offer after your 9-12 month classroom training??? I had figure if you made it to the classroom you were in.
I am married with two kids, mortgage, etc..Would so love to do this but that is a lot to risk without some job guarantee.
As others have posted, change the system and I'll continue with my application.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
My understanding (having looked into it before) is that its just like going to college.
You go and get yourself an education in a particular field of study, with the hopes of later getting a job in that field. But like most college & university grads, only a small percentage actually find work in their field.
Its the fact that the education is provided by the would-be employer that misleads some into thinking they have a higher chance of employment afterwards.
Some people think its a similar situation as, oh lets say joining the RCMP, Forces or Coast Guard or something like that, where attending their 'college' or training program means employment afterwards... But it's not. Instead, think of it as going to a community college for a 'law & security' diploma, and then trying to get a job with a police force.
You go and get yourself an education in a particular field of study, with the hopes of later getting a job in that field. But like most college & university grads, only a small percentage actually find work in their field.
Its the fact that the education is provided by the would-be employer that misleads some into thinking they have a higher chance of employment afterwards.
Some people think its a similar situation as, oh lets say joining the RCMP, Forces or Coast Guard or something like that, where attending their 'college' or training program means employment afterwards... But it's not. Instead, think of it as going to a community college for a 'law & security' diploma, and then trying to get a job with a police force.
Cheers,
Brew
Brew
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invertedattitude
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Read the thread man if you qualify there will be a job for you the problem is very few qualify
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Exactly. If they take 12 candidates and they all make it passed the training, on the job training and eventually qualify as a controller you are GUARANTEED your job. Stated before the issue is not very many people qualify.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Sorry mate, but unfortunately it's not, and those who have been to College/Uni and treat it the same are going to find out the hard way.Brewguy wrote:My understanding (having looked into it before) is that its just like going to college
Ab initios I have encountered in the past generally fall into 3 camps. There are those that have genuinely researched what they are getting into regarding the learning required AND simulation, with an interest in aviation of sorts (not necessarily a "plane spotter", but has a base knowledge to start with) and is motivated to be an Air Traffic Controller and will sell his/her first born to do it.
There's the group that knows "sort of" what the world of ATC is, may not necessarily have an aviation interest, but has not just "fallen into it" due to no other options/aspiration They may shrug when asked what type of airplane that is flying by, but will endeavor to go and find out. They are surprised at times at what is required to obtain a licence, but find their passion for the job increases every day.
Then there's the group with a very vague appreciation of the job but can tell you all about the pay on checkout, what hours they will have to be in the school and what holidays they will get during the year. Chances are they're probably not paying for the course themselves (thank you Daddy!). When asked what airplane is that flying over their heads, they'll shrug and provide some smart ass answer like "They're all dots on a screen to me". They'll probably cheer with delight if they hear the simulator has broken down for the rest of the day.
As to success rates, in my honest and humble opinion, if we could get more of the first 2 groups, it may be a start. I'm not writing anyone off from the start, I'm just a huge believer in ascertaining somebody's cognitive abilities and motivation
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full_flaps
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
invertedattitude, at what point is someone "qualified"?
Is it before the 9-12 month training or at the end of the 9-12 month training??
If you have your job guaranteed to you prior to you paying the $3500 then it’s not so bad BUT if you pay for your training and they say sorry then again not worth the chance unless you are fresh out of high school with no commitments.
Is it before the 9-12 month training or at the end of the 9-12 month training??
If you have your job guaranteed to you prior to you paying the $3500 then it’s not so bad BUT if you pay for your training and they say sorry then again not worth the chance unless you are fresh out of high school with no commitments.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
I guess I was mis-informed, and stand corrected.
I'd looked into it a couple of years back, and it was a couple of people I'd known from back in my air cadet days who told me about it. Of the three people I knew who went into the training, only one ended up working at the end. I suppose they info they gave me may have been a little biased.
I'd looked into it a couple of years back, and it was a couple of people I'd known from back in my air cadet days who told me about it. Of the three people I knew who went into the training, only one ended up working at the end. I suppose they info they gave me may have been a little biased.
Cheers,
Brew
Brew
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Qualification is the last thing that happens during your training after that you work by yourself. It can really vary on time depending where you are. It took me about 19 months from start to finish but 7 months I was about 33k a year which isn't too bad.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Here's the deal. Either you apply for the opportunity for ATC or not. If offered training and you check out, the risk/reward factor will be very rewarding. If you don't, well, then you'll move on with your life. You won't know until you try, and you won't find anybody on this site who can tell you whether or not that you will be the "one".
There's about 2200 controllers in Nav Canada (aprx.?????). They have all taken the "risk" of being checked out or ct'd. If you don't want to take the chance, somebody else will. And people will always succeed. They always do. Somebody has to get checked out right? Why question yourself before even trying? The guys/gals sitting in their respective sectors/terminals/towers are no different then you. They all faced the same questions/concerns you have.
It's way too good an opportunity (career and lifestyle) to pass up. Hey, no regrets whichever way it turns out if it's the career you think you want. Either way you will know.
There's about 2200 controllers in Nav Canada (aprx.?????). They have all taken the "risk" of being checked out or ct'd. If you don't want to take the chance, somebody else will. And people will always succeed. They always do. Somebody has to get checked out right? Why question yourself before even trying? The guys/gals sitting in their respective sectors/terminals/towers are no different then you. They all faced the same questions/concerns you have.
It's way too good an opportunity (career and lifestyle) to pass up. Hey, no regrets whichever way it turns out if it's the career you think you want. Either way you will know.
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Boy am I looking forward to paid training. I have to work part-time through VFR ground school and it is not easy. I'm 4 weeks in and this was the first week I started to feel really overwhelmed with all the bookwork as well as rundown in general due to no days off...Braun wrote:Qualification is the last thing that happens during your training after that you work by yourself. It can really vary on time depending where you are. It took me about 19 months from start to finish but 7 months I was about 33k a year which isn't too bad.
It will be so worth it... IF I check out...
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
hehe, I feel you man I worked during training too! Even after I checked out I kept working a bit to help out so I definately feel your pain! IT IS SO WORTH IT!
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
I went to NCTI and there is no way I could have afforded to support myself in the current system. I am sure that they will still have people willing to try, but the quality of the applicants may not be as high because they eliminate most people from even attempting.
I was one of the not so lucky ones and even so i came out with some debt when I got home. Im not dumb, I aced all of the written tests and I have a pilot licence i just didn't pass a simulator eval by like 2 percent and the instructors didn't really go out of there way to help when they were aware I was struggling. If I had been one of the unlucky ones now it would be like going and getting a degree that you never got and then having to work if off at a very low paying job which could be crippling for years, unless of course you have access to a bunch of money. I would think twice.
I was one of the not so lucky ones and even so i came out with some debt when I got home. Im not dumb, I aced all of the written tests and I have a pilot licence i just didn't pass a simulator eval by like 2 percent and the instructors didn't really go out of there way to help when they were aware I was struggling. If I had been one of the unlucky ones now it would be like going and getting a degree that you never got and then having to work if off at a very low paying job which could be crippling for years, unless of course you have access to a bunch of money. I would think twice.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
One piece of advice I do have for anyone considering training and working p/t through basic: DO NOT mention this at the interview. Had an informal conversation the other day with the director of training who hadn't realized that I would be having to work, and I definitely got the impression that had I mentioned that in the interview, I would not have been selected for training. 
Sorry, but with 1 month notice for the course, I really had no time to save up and even in that case I probably would be working regardless. Couldn't afford to be here otherwise.
Sorry, but with 1 month notice for the course, I really had no time to save up and even in that case I probably would be working regardless. Couldn't afford to be here otherwise.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
As someone currently going through training, I think that the financial challenge is large, but definitely not impossible to overcome if you really want this. It is similar to University where I spent well over $30k for my undergrad. If you want it, you will be able to pull it off - everyone that I know who wanted, like really truly wanted to get a university degree and not just to waste some time, found a way to make it work and found ways to deal with the financial situation.
The main factor to consider is that there is a 100% employment rate for graduates. What some people do not realize is that unlike most schools where you have a "bell curve" or some averaging, here you have a minimum standard that EVERYONE must achieve. Yes, it's not for everyone, but it's up to you to make it happen if this is what you really want.
I had less then a months notice and had to work for an extra month or so part-time during training, but now I quit and am happy I did as it helps a lot in freeing up studying time.
I guess my point is that if you want to play the averages, then you are most likely not driven enough to give it your all for training. If you know the profession and are adamant in getting your license, then you will have no problem in the course, should you get in - you will make it work.
The main factor to consider is that there is a 100% employment rate for graduates. What some people do not realize is that unlike most schools where you have a "bell curve" or some averaging, here you have a minimum standard that EVERYONE must achieve. Yes, it's not for everyone, but it's up to you to make it happen if this is what you really want.
I had less then a months notice and had to work for an extra month or so part-time during training, but now I quit and am happy I did as it helps a lot in freeing up studying time.
I guess my point is that if you want to play the averages, then you are most likely not driven enough to give it your all for training. If you know the profession and are adamant in getting your license, then you will have no problem in the course, should you get in - you will make it work.
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invertedattitude
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
No offense, but I know of several people who love ATC, live and breath aviation in every part of their life, and wanted nothing more than to become a controller, put everything in their life on hold, gave it 110% and then failed, please don't get peoples hopes up by saying "If you want it bad enough you will get it"
It simply is not true, that being said there are many people who do make it simply because they put that extra effort into it, I'm just saying that nothing is a given no matter how hard you try, some people just don't get it, and never will.
As I've said before, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I just happened to have an aptitude for ATC, but it also helps that I absolutely love this job, and everything about it, I do think that my passion for flying and avation defiantely helped me when I was training, it's definately the first job I've had where I still love coming to work everyday... (Except maybe the odd 2300-0728 shifts on a Friday night, now the 2300-0700 shifts those are a little easier to take
)
It simply is not true, that being said there are many people who do make it simply because they put that extra effort into it, I'm just saying that nothing is a given no matter how hard you try, some people just don't get it, and never will.
As I've said before, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I just happened to have an aptitude for ATC, but it also helps that I absolutely love this job, and everything about it, I do think that my passion for flying and avation defiantely helped me when I was training, it's definately the first job I've had where I still love coming to work everyday... (Except maybe the odd 2300-0728 shifts on a Friday night, now the 2300-0700 shifts those are a little easier to take
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invertedattitude
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Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
Wow cpl, I don't know where you work, but I think it's time for a transfer... while we have a few bitter people here (as in any job I've ever worked) generally people are quite happy, the money vs cost of living here is fantastic, and the job is most days rewarding, and our relationship with managment has greatly improved in the last 2 years.
There obviously are still problems, but from what our Union tells us, the company is taking active measures to improve their relationship with the employees, time will tell if this pans out, but it has been working here locally at least to some degree.
I will add to this, that if there is any unit in the entire country which should have a bitter senior group of controllers it is here more than anywhere else.
I have not heard of any other unit which was suddenly uprooted and moved all over the country, had their jobs replaced by new trainees when the project was cancelled taking some people years to get home again, spouses losing their jobs/seniority, entire families being broken up, yet the envrionment I work in for the most part is a good one, for the most part we all get along.
Bottom line is, I work 17 days a month with absolutely no vacation taken, make in the top 1% of income earners in this neck of the woods, see my family everyday, and can live on a large enough plot of land, in a 2000 square foot brand new home for under 180K.... seriously, if anyone complains about that, they'll never be happy.
There obviously are still problems, but from what our Union tells us, the company is taking active measures to improve their relationship with the employees, time will tell if this pans out, but it has been working here locally at least to some degree.
I will add to this, that if there is any unit in the entire country which should have a bitter senior group of controllers it is here more than anywhere else.
I have not heard of any other unit which was suddenly uprooted and moved all over the country, had their jobs replaced by new trainees when the project was cancelled taking some people years to get home again, spouses losing their jobs/seniority, entire families being broken up, yet the envrionment I work in for the most part is a good one, for the most part we all get along.
Bottom line is, I work 17 days a month with absolutely no vacation taken, make in the top 1% of income earners in this neck of the woods, see my family everyday, and can live on a large enough plot of land, in a 2000 square foot brand new home for under 180K.... seriously, if anyone complains about that, they'll never be happy.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped you
I am going to have to agree with you on that inverted, where I work the employees are getting younger and the "old guard" is starting to be a minority, so the bitter people really don't have much of a place anymore. Also by young I don't just mean people in there 20's but most of our supervisors now are in the 40 range.The management is actually pretty good, except a few exceptions(like any job) and like you said the pay. I don't want to brag but if it can serve any motivation to anyone interested in my first complete year (this year) I made 137,000$ and the first payscale of 12, I did quite a bit of O/T during the summer but barely none during the winter. I find the insurance to be extremely well rounded and you can also modify to get a bit more coverage, or less. Pension, well, doesn't get much better than that 25 years is 60% of your 5 best years pay wise and 35 years service is 70% of your 5 best years. You can also "cash out" if you like.
I must admit the working conditions I have worked in are not what I heard it would be like when I first applied. I expected to be treated like S*** until I checked out and people to be bitter and not talk to trainees. It was pretty much the opposite, I mean sure there are a few bad apples but 90% of the people I work with are great!
Vacation, as a first year employee you get 91.XX hours of Lieu leave, 127 hrs of annual leave and you accumulate sick days at a rate of 10.xx hours per 30 days of work. With the current cycles basically you take 6 days off in leave and end up getting 13 days off in a row. Joy's of working 6-4 6-4 5-3.
Anyways, I guess it depends where you work, but in the end the job is rewarding. Some say thankless, I don't care I know what we do and we do it to the best of our ability and it makes me proud to do my job.
I must admit the working conditions I have worked in are not what I heard it would be like when I first applied. I expected to be treated like S*** until I checked out and people to be bitter and not talk to trainees. It was pretty much the opposite, I mean sure there are a few bad apples but 90% of the people I work with are great!
Vacation, as a first year employee you get 91.XX hours of Lieu leave, 127 hrs of annual leave and you accumulate sick days at a rate of 10.xx hours per 30 days of work. With the current cycles basically you take 6 days off in leave and end up getting 13 days off in a row. Joy's of working 6-4 6-4 5-3.
Anyways, I guess it depends where you work, but in the end the job is rewarding. Some say thankless, I don't care I know what we do and we do it to the best of our ability and it makes me proud to do my job.
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped
[quote="WhatThe?"]After going through the whole process I turned down YEG IFR twice because I couldn't afford the:
1. self funded move to YEG
2. $3,500 for IFR
3. no pay for 9-months+++
4. the uncertainty of actually getting licenced
5. fear of spending 2+ years of my life to get trained, and have some soon to be retired old-timer tap me on the shoulder because I would be cutting into his overtime!
Change the system and I would love to reapply.
I was offered a training position for IFR and after reading and researching I came to the same conclusions as above which made me decide I just can’t take the risk. I am a commercial pilot and I understand aviation and what the job is about but I just can't take the gamble. From what people have written at the end it all comes down to if you kept a low enough profile and didn't p**s anyone off. I'm not playing that game no matter how much money there could be waiting at the end. I wanted to be a pilot and I chose flying so money really is not a driving factor for me, that being said, I also do not have a pile of cash to not work for 10 months. Take the big paycheques out of ATC and how many people here would still have applied for and still be working at this for say $30,000- $40,000 a year? Almost every post here of certified controllers has the same underlying tone of how much money they make, how great their pensions are etc. Good luck to everyone who is accepting their offers. If they change the system, I would happily accept the offer.
1. self funded move to YEG
2. $3,500 for IFR
3. no pay for 9-months+++
4. the uncertainty of actually getting licenced
5. fear of spending 2+ years of my life to get trained, and have some soon to be retired old-timer tap me on the shoulder because I would be cutting into his overtime!
Change the system and I would love to reapply.
I was offered a training position for IFR and after reading and researching I came to the same conclusions as above which made me decide I just can’t take the risk. I am a commercial pilot and I understand aviation and what the job is about but I just can't take the gamble. From what people have written at the end it all comes down to if you kept a low enough profile and didn't p**s anyone off. I'm not playing that game no matter how much money there could be waiting at the end. I wanted to be a pilot and I chose flying so money really is not a driving factor for me, that being said, I also do not have a pile of cash to not work for 10 months. Take the big paycheques out of ATC and how many people here would still have applied for and still be working at this for say $30,000- $40,000 a year? Almost every post here of certified controllers has the same underlying tone of how much money they make, how great their pensions are etc. Good luck to everyone who is accepting their offers. If they change the system, I would happily accept the offer.
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invertedattitude
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2353
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:12 pm
Re: If you have thought about ATC, but the no income stopped
No matter what they change, at the end of the day it's still going to be an Air Traffic Controller deciding if you get a license or not, that will never change...
So if you're not willing to "Play the game" then you made a good choice by not accepting I guess, I suppose you might also think you should walk into a job and get the same pay and benefits as a guy there 30 years?
It's a small tight community, and you gotta earn your right to be a part of it, if you want this job, you have to be able to do the job and have a good attitude too.
I realize that sounds incredibly conceited, but that's just the way it is.
All that being said, unless you're an absolute ass, and just keep to yourself your attitude won't affect your training, at least not here.
I can fully accept some people are not able to get their head around ATC training, they are the same type who would never make it in any authority envrionment (RCMP training, Military, etc) If anything ATC is a lot easier than those above.
If you want to skate your way through life without making sacrifices then you will most likely be equally rewarded.
Do you think I could "Afford" the training, nobody can unless they're still living on Mommys tit, get yourself a job and work your ass off early mornings and nights, and do your training during the days, it can be done, many people have done it, it just means giving up your "fun" life for 9 months or so until you're sitting on the floor getting paid training.
You actually sound like a smart person to realize you don't have the right attitude to make it, and save yourself the headache.
So if you're not willing to "Play the game" then you made a good choice by not accepting I guess, I suppose you might also think you should walk into a job and get the same pay and benefits as a guy there 30 years?
It's a small tight community, and you gotta earn your right to be a part of it, if you want this job, you have to be able to do the job and have a good attitude too.
I realize that sounds incredibly conceited, but that's just the way it is.
All that being said, unless you're an absolute ass, and just keep to yourself your attitude won't affect your training, at least not here.
I can fully accept some people are not able to get their head around ATC training, they are the same type who would never make it in any authority envrionment (RCMP training, Military, etc) If anything ATC is a lot easier than those above.
If you want to skate your way through life without making sacrifices then you will most likely be equally rewarded.
Do you think I could "Afford" the training, nobody can unless they're still living on Mommys tit, get yourself a job and work your ass off early mornings and nights, and do your training during the days, it can be done, many people have done it, it just means giving up your "fun" life for 9 months or so until you're sitting on the floor getting paid training.
You actually sound like a smart person to realize you don't have the right attitude to make it, and save yourself the headache.
