pipe trades or AME

[kilpicki]

a teenage member of my family has an opportunity to go into the pipe trades as a level one apprentice or learner.

the starting pay is only 18 per hr but its a union job and to intice this person to start they have a job for her/him 13 hrs per day 24 days on then some days off. 1.5 and 2 times pay for o.t of course as its a pipetrade union. the pay goes up every year as you move up to level 2 etc and after 4 yrs you get a ticket.

when I compared this to the AME apprentice pay its a no brainer to stay away from aviation

[iflyforpie]

a teenage member of my family has an opportunity to go into the pipe trades as a level one apprentice or learner.

the starting pay is only 18 per hr but its a union job and to intice this person to start they have a job for her/him 13 hrs per day 24 days on then some days off. 1.5 and 2 times pay for o.t of course as its a pipetrade union. the pay goes up every year as you move up to level 2 etc and after 4 yrs you get a ticket.

when I compared this to the AME apprentice pay its a no brainer to stay away from aviation

I don't know, I was doing better as an AME apprentice ten years ago. Also sounds like this job is in the middle of BFN.


Money isn't everything, otherwise we'd all be on the rigs...

[longjon]

You were making more than 18 dollars per hour as a first year apprentice more than 10 yrs ago? Now who was that for?

[username here]

I'd say the average 1st year apprentice is $15/hr, and maybe getting $20 - $22/hr just before being licenced.

[iflyforpie]

You were making more than 18 dollars per hour as a first year apprentice more than 10 yrs ago? Now who was that for?

Money isn't everything, otherwise we'd all be on the rigs...

I also highlighted the 13 hour days and the 24 day work period (is that legal??).

I started at 14/hr and rounded out my apprenticeship at $20/hr working for Kelowna Flightcraft over a period of two years, ten years ago. That didn't include the ~$1000/yr Barry Buck bonus, benefits, and free jumpseats. Not to mention not paying union dues and not dealing with all the BS associated with it. Plus it was in Southern BC, Monday to Friday, 40 hours per week with no forced overtime. Other than the sucky company culture, it was a great place to start out.

If someone thinks that the pipe-dream pay scale and schedule is a step up from what you are getting in aviation, you've either been royally screwed or spending too much time with another kind of pipe.

[Pat Richard]

No brainer, plumber.

I worked at kfc the same time pie was there, and I don't recall him being so enthusiastic when he was there, especially when they lay'd him off during one of the famous house cleanings. Can't say I blamed him for being pissed, because they kept some real losers(like they always did), and he was a pretty good mech.

But whatever, in the longer term, the plumbing trade would be the smarter choice financially and in lifestyle. I don't see many plumbers starving for work even now, and the ones doing reno's make a killing, especially when in business for themselves.
Throw in much less personal liability and much less initial investment, and you really have a situation that requires no hard thinking.

If he says airplanes are "cooler", or he "loves aviation", slap them in the head, as hard as you can, until they change their tune.

They will thank you in the long run.

[iflyforpie]

And don't get me wrong either, something has to happen to wages and working conditions for AMEs. But please, PLEASE look at more than just the great hourly wage while you are getting screwed everywhere else... (lifestyle, working conditions, etc).

I love aviation (sorry PR), but I am keeping myself out of general circulation. Even $35/hr to contract for a sweatshop was a rip-off...

[kilpicki]

I got a bit more information on my Niece and her upcoming trade. Its going to be in the NDT side of the pipetrades.

I'm going to watch this close and see where it takes her, probably in a higher tax bracket in 2 or 3 yrs than I'm in after more than a few in ac maintenance.

And its in "upgrader alley" so not really BFN.

[123dash]

hey iflyforpie. what planet were you on ten years ago? No way you were gettin that kind of $$$$

[billy ray valintine]

I got a bit more information on my Niece and her upcoming trade. Its going to be in the NDT side of the pipetrades.

I'm going to watch this close and see where it takes her, probably in a higher tax bracket in 2 or 3 yrs than I'm in after more than a few in ac maintenance.

And its in "upgrader alley" so not really BFN.

kilpicki

this decision is really a no brainer!
a chance to get an NDT ticket will take this person further than any AME licence will.
there will be more options for NDT in many other industries{including aviation}.
an AME licence is only good in this crap industry.
make sense?

brv

[twistedoldwrench]

My son in law is a red seal industrial pipe fitter- makes big bucks when working- union jobs, but is out of work more than on and is barly making it FWIW. Big industry is not what it use to be. I'd look seriously at how much work there is in the pipe fitting trade- certainly is a huge shortage of qualified NDT people around.

[iflyforpie]

hey iflyforpie. what planet were you on ten years ago? No way you were gettin that kind of $$$$

Uhm.. Earth?? And yes I was.

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

If she can get into NDT she'll never look back.

All the benefits without the wear and tear on the body. Okay, so her kids may glow in the dark, but hey, that'll make it safer for them on Hallowe'en.

iflyforpie, I saw KFC some years ago. I never worked there but I stopped in for a short check with a company aircraft. About 70% of the crew eventually asked me about working conditions/pay where I was at. I noticed it was always alone or in pairs - out of earshot of others. That told me enough to know I would never work there.

[iflyforpie]

If she can get into NDT she'll never look back.

All the benefits without the wear and tear on the body. Okay, so her kids may glow in the dark, but hey, that'll make it safer for them on Hallowe'en.

iflyforpie, I saw KFC some years ago. I never worked there but I stopped in for a short check with a company aircraft. About 70% of the crew eventually asked me about working conditions/pay where I was at. I noticed it was always alone or in pairs - out of earshot of others. That told me enough to know I would never work there.

The place wasn't great, but way above some subsequent places I worked. I did a stint of contracting at Cascade Aerospace and it is because of my experiences that I put KFC in a better light than I did when I was working there.

From what I understand, both places have gone downhill in a hurry which is one of the reasons I left heavy (M2) maintenance years ago.

[Pat Richard]

hey iflyforpie. what planet were you on ten years ago? No way you were gettin that kind of $$$$

Well, it wasn't exactly $20, but I think it was $19.25 a/hr for the top apprentice rate back then. There was a slightly higher rate reserved for some forever apprentices, usually ex-forces guys. But that was the pay back then. Trouble it hasn't improved much since, a new hire M2(experienced or not) starts at $25 a/hr. That doesn't go very far in barryland thesedays.

[iflyforpie]

I think you'll forgive me the .75c when you factor in that I bought my first house for under $100k, gas was 60c/l, and your average shop rate was $60/hr back then.

Starting wages for M2 was $23/hr back then I believe and to hear of $25/hr start now ten years later is unbelievable.


Forever apprentices, there were a few weren't there?

[kilpicki]

Pipe trades --journeymen--- at this long hrs. job I mentioned take home $3,400 A WEEK jeez I knew I should have switched trades after the 3rd or 4th lay off

[planemikey]

NDT job 100%

Aviation is on the downhill and for awhile longer here in Canada unless you want to live up north or in the boon docks . heay maintenance is going south to th US of mexicans , Brazil( Trans At ) and Central America (Aveos ). What employers are left are rubbing their hands together while AMe's are stabbing each other in the back to get hired and willing to take less money every day.

[badnewz]

kilpicki wrote:
I got a bit more information on my Niece and her upcoming trade. Its going to be in the NDT side of the pipetrades.

I'm going to watch this close and see where it takes her, probably in a higher tax bracket in 2 or 3 yrs than I'm in after more than a few in ac maintenance.

And its in "upgrader alley" so not really BFN.]

NDT may seem like the better way, but like the pipefitter trade it is also intermittant depending on location and the CGSB tickets she pursues. Upgrader alley will work as long as her employee holds that contract. There are only so many companies up there and there are a lot of industrial NDT techs looking for work. As for aviation, I agree, it appears attractive but its like putting lipstick on a pig.....

[skydrolboy]

I think you'll forgive me the .75c when you factor in that I bought my first house for under $100k, gas was 60c/l, and your average shop rate was $60/hr back then.

Starting wages for M2 was $23/hr back then I believe and to hear of $25/hr start now ten years later is unbelievable.


Forever apprentices, there were a few weren't there?

It may be 25/hr to start as a Mech level one.....but if you come in with experience and a couple endorsements you will be starting up in the middle of the scale around 30/hr....And Mech 4 leadhands (non crew-chiefs) are making 36/hr......

[Pat Richard]

any endorsement, or something specific?

[skydrolboy]

endorsements that are on the AMO certificate are best but any endorsement on M2 usually works....

[BusDriver]

Plumber 100%

Wish I could trade in my M1M2. Even with the union bullshit, way better lifestyle and money. Go hang out at the flying club on the weekend's if you are horned up for aviation. (You can watch the poor guy's working weekends for shit money)

[electraguy]

Good call badnewz! As a fellow NDT guy, who trained under badnewz I would say that NDT is a great trade. Its not all the cash and glory that some people here make it out to be though. Yep it pays decent, but working on the upgraders not going to be any picnic, and there is call for NDT in aviation, but you need experience, tickets and a strong understanding of aircraft and the regulations before that will take you anywhere. I would have to agree that AME's are getting the shaft these days. I have watched almost 180 skilled mechanics, sheetmetal and composite techs walk out the doors where i work in the last 2 years so its a rough go. If your going NDT, be ready to battle it out in the trenches, knee deep in mag and dye, or worse yet, playing rad cowboy, but it does pay off if you stick it out!

[212wrench]

Being a plumber? I wonder whose crapper your going to be sticking you hand down today. Sorry, I'll take AME any day.