ATPL Frozen in Canada?

[Jerry Lee]

Hi guys, I'm new in the canadian aviation!
My name's Marco, I'm 17 years old, and I come from Salerno, in South Italy.
This summer I hope to get the PPL here in Italy, but when I'll get the diploma, I want continue to study for become an airline pilot.
At the moment I'm very interested for a modular course, and so I'm looking for good flight school in Canada.
But I've just question to do to you: Is possible to get the ATPL Frozen in Canada, or I can get the ATPL only after reached the 1500 hours?

I need still some information, but I'll do the question one by one.

Regards,

Marco.

[pilotman15]

look into moncton flight college

[Jerry Lee]

look into moncton flight college

I know that school, but I'm also looking for the Toronto Airways Ltd. Anything to say about this school?

Then I heard that the MFC doesn't make no more JAA course.

[_dwj_]

I think it might be cheaper to do the whole thing at once rather than separately.

What about Cabair or Oxford in the UK? Price of both is GBP66000 for frozen ATPL and includes accomodation. They both have excellent reputations.

[Jerry Lee]

I think it might be cheaper to do the whole thing at once rather than separately.

What about Cabair or Oxford in the UK? Price of both is GBP66000 for frozen ATPL and includes accomodation. They both have excellent reputations.

Yes, they've excellent reputations, but they're too expensive. In Euro the price is 100000 Euros. I can buy a new Mercedes with this price
I know Moorabbin Flying Services School at Melbourne, in Australia.

An integral course is more expensive than the modular course, and so you can have also the time for a part time work, if you need it. You can stop the course, instead of the integral, you can't stop it.
That's in my opinion.

But I don't find the answer to my question yet: Is ATPL frozen available in Canada, or I can get it once I've reached 1500 hours?

[_dwj_]

Yes, they've excellent reputations, but they're too expensive. In Euro the price is 100000 Euros. I can buy a new Mercedes with this price

Yeah, they are much more expensive, but you have a better chance of getting a job. If you go with a course in Canada, you will almost certainly have to instruct or do bush flying until you have over 1000 hours before any airline will even look at you. With a frozen ATPL it is possible to walk straight into the right seat with a low-cost euro airline.

But I don't find the answer to my question yet: Is ATPL frozen available in Canada, or I can get it once I've reached 1500 hours?

It would only be possible if it was a JAR course, but I'm not aware of any available in Canada. According to Harv's Air website they recommend you do your commercial multi IR in Canada and then convert it to JAR when you get back to Europe:

http://www.harvsair.com/site/information/jaa-faq.html#4

[eterepekio]

look into moncton flight college

I know that school, but I'm also looking for the Toronto Airways Ltd. Anything to say about this school?

Then I heard that the MFC doesn't make no more JAA course.

AVOID at all costs Toronto Airways.

[Tim]

you CAN get a frozen atpl in canada. it requires being enrolled in an intergrated course as well as additional groundschool hours.

[_dwj_]

you CAN get a frozen atpl in canada. it requires being enrolled in an intergrated course as well as additional groundschool hours.

If you do the TC ATPL exam, it will expire in 2 years as I understand it - so it is not 'frozen'. You need to get a JAR frozen ATPL, and there doesn't seem to be anywhere in Canada offering a JAR ATPL. If you know different, please post details!

[AUGER9]

you CAN get a frozen atpl in canada. it requires being enrolled in an intergrated course as well as additional groundschool hours.

If you do the TC ATPL exam, it will expire in 2 years as I understand it - so it is not 'frozen'. You need to get a JAR frozen ATPL, and there doesn't seem to be anywhere in Canada offering a JAR ATPL. If you know different, please post details!

There actually is a frozen Canadian ATPL. Freezes for 5 years, I believe, and only a couple schools offer the program. I haven't ever seen a JAR atpl in Canada, however.

[Jerry Lee]

AVOID at all costs Toronto Airways.

Hi eterepekio, thank you for your interesting at my question.
Why schould I avoid this school?
Well, I'm looking for good flight school in Toronto, because I love it as city more than the other
Which other flight school can you (and you other) suggest to me?

[ETOPS]

Island Air
Canadian Flyers International

[eterepekio]

Island Air
Canadian Flyers International

I agree, one of those is your best option.

[Jerry Lee]

Island Air
Canadian Flyers International

I agree, one of those is your best option.

Thanks, I'll see them now.

So in Canada is not possible get the ATPL Frozen?
Which is type are the canadian licenses? I mean like FAA for USA, JAA for Europa and CASA for Australia.

For fly aircraft like Atr42/72 or Dash is requested ever the ATPL, or I can get in a regional company with the CPL?

Well, if you've not understand yet, I'm looking to stay in Canada for ever

[_dwj_]

Island Air
Canadian Flyers International

I agree, one of those is your best option.

Thanks, I'll see them now.

So in Canada is not possible get the ATPL Frozen?
Which is type are the canadian licenses? I mean like FAA for USA, JAA for Europa and CASA for Australia.

For fly aircraft like Atr42/72 or Dash is requested ever the ATPL, or I can get in a regional company with the CPL?

Well, if you've not understand yet, I'm looking to stay in Canada for ever

I think your best bet would be to talk to a few flight schools in Canada, and if they are any good they will be happy to discuss it in detail with you (and you'll get better answers than here on avcanada!)

But to answer your other questions:

Transport Canada (TC) is the equivalent of the FAA/JAA in Canada.

In Canada (like in Europe) you can fly as first officer (co-pilot) in an airline with just a CPL. You only need an ATPL to fly as captain. However you are very unlikely to get a first officer position at an airline in Canada (even regional) with just a CPL/IR and 200 hours. Most want over 1000 hours, so you'll need to instruct or do some bush flying for a few years to build up the hours.

[Jerry Lee]

Than you! That was one of questions that I was looking for!
Well, in reality I had understand that in Canada without the ATP I could fly on big jets as co-pilot, but now I know that it is possible, as all over the world
And yes, I wanna become a flight instructor, because I think is a great thing for grow up professionaly and get hours

[_dwj_]

Than you! That was one of questions that I was looking for!
Well, in reality I had understand that in Canada without the ATP I could fly on big jets as co-pilot, but now I know that it is possible, as all over the world
And yes, I wanna become a flight instructor, because I think is a great thing for grow up professionaly and get hours

I think you can fly co-pilot in europe with just a CPL/IR, but you might want to confirm that. But most airlines there require frozen ATPL minimum anyway, so you're unlikely to be flying any big jets in europe without it.

Anyway, if you like the idea of being a flight instructor then that is probably the best way to build up your hours and you shouldn't have any problem in getting a job at an airline after a few years.

[capt.pilot]

My understanding of the "Frozen ATPL" in Canada is that there are 2 ways to do it.. If you do the integrated course for Commercial and then you write the exams it is "Frozen"..

The other option is that you write the ATPL Exams (SARON / SAMRA - 2 not 14 like the JARs) it is valid for 2 years from the date you write it. However if you get a type rating on an aircraft over 12,500 (Large Aircraft Category) it "Freezes" your ATPL because you are required to have either the ATPL Exams (2) or IATRA (Multi Crew Exam) written before the type rating can be added to your license. Once they add the Type Rating they can't take it off..

You need one of these two options (ATPL Exams or IATRA) before you will be able to work for a major airline (705 Operations) or any operator that Operates at the 705 - Airline level as a co-pilot. There is no way around it.

But the question of what you will get hired with is another story all together.. Right now there is such a large pool of Candidates, but many flight schools will hire you as instructor if you do the rating at their school, and have good grades and perfomance.

Good luck in your training. Safe Flying!!!

[Dujan]

Seneca College in Toronto offers a frozen ATPL along with a degree in Aviation and Flight Technology. It's quite a good program with a good reputation and its also government subsidized, so the tuition is only about 43,000 or so, which is a pretty decent for a degree along with all your licenses. However, it isn't for a lot of people because they like a more relaxed training environment (Seneca is very structured, has a dress code, etc.) and because many of the classes, especially in first year, are very theoretical.
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck!

[Dujan]

Just to add this...If you are looking into JAA, Seneca only does TC licenses.

[Romantic Lung]

Island Air is Super-expensive (try and find a more costly FTU)

And Canadians Flyers has a small fleet at Toronto island.

You'll spend .3 - .5 of your hobbs time getting to a practice area from the island too.


Spectrum Airways in Burlington is excellent. There are some great instructors there.
They're great because they want to teach primarily, not build hours. And It's very close to a practice area.
And the maintenance on the planes is excellent.

The prices are the most inexpensive too.

A 35 minute drive from Toronto (downtown) not during evening rush hours of course.

[DAVE THE RAVE]

I think you can fly co-pilot in europe with just a CPL/IR, but you might want to confirm that. But most airlines there require frozen ATPL minimum anyway, so you're unlikely to be flying any big jets in europe without it.

Just to clarify, there is no such thing as a "Frozen ATPL" under JAR-FCL. The entry level licence to be an F/O at a European airline is a CPL/Multi IR with ATPL theoretical knowledge credit. The term "Frozen ATPL" came from the old UK CAA system, for those CPL holders who had written the ATPL exams. JAR-FCL allows the candidate to write the ATPL exams in lieu of the CPL exams for the issue of the CPL, unlike in Canada. When the candidate receives their CPL it will be issued stating they have ATPL theoretical knowledge credit. Once the pilot has acquired the experience level and passed a flight test, they will be issued with an ATPL.