2010 season.. hows it looking?

[Puba Maxwell]

Havent seen many jobs up. What are peoples impressions of the upcoming season?

[kevinsky18]

It seems to me there has been more postings for float drivers already this year than what we had for all of last year.

That's just my impression I haven't actually been keeping count.

[Rowdy]

From the sounds of it so far, we may see a decent season.

[Highsea]

I think this year is better then last year and hope next year will be better then 2010. I have been getting a lot of PFO this year, But I have one offer in the works. Is anyone else hearing back from anyplace yet?

[cessnafloatflyer]

Two of my students have been hired for their first jobs already --

[Highflyinpilot]

[quote="cessnafloatflyer"]Two of my students have been hired for their first jobs already --[/quote]


That is good to hear,

Hoping for a good season for the aviation business.

[floatrfun]

I agree it's looking better this season. One of our students who did a good chunk of his licensing on floats, just called to say he just landed a job in a right seat of a single Otter back home in Ontario in Red lake and starts in April. He had just over 200 TT so that's a real good sign. It's a good idea time to take a road trip and go door to door.

[Otterflogger]

The "healthiest" American fisherman (or if females in the party, the best looking one) always has "shotgun" in the right seat of an Otter............

Cheers,

Steve

[Slats]

I agree it's looking better this season. One of our students who did a good chunk of his licensing on floats, just called to say he just landed a job in a right seat of a single Otter back home in Ontario in Red lake and starts in April. He had just over 200 TT so that's a real good sign. It's a good idea time to take a road trip and go door to door.

Yeah, I don't like to be the one to bust bubbles but that's not a flying job, it's a dock job. I can tell you exactly who that job is for and exactly what it's all about, in great detail. Unfortunately it will never lead to flying with that company. I'm all for working on the dock, but there's no column in a logbook for swamping in a single Otter. Hopefully your student has a good personality and work ethic that gets noticed by a competing company.

[Cat Driver]

Lets look at this a little closer.

One pilot works on a dock loading airplanes.

Another pilot flys in a single Otter as a swamper and gets to know the country and observe an experienced bush pilot fly and make decisions.

At the end of the season which pilot knows more about bush flying?

[seasonedfloatflyer]

I agree it's looking better this season. One of our students who did a good chunk of his licensing on floats, just called to say he just landed a job in a right seat of a single Otter back home in Ontario in Red lake and starts in April. He had just over 200 TT so that's a real good sign. It's a good idea time to take a road trip and go door to door.

Yeah, I don't like to be the one to bust bubbles but that's not a flying job, it's a dock job. I can tell you exactly who that job is for and exactly what it's all about, in great detail. Unfortunately it will never lead to flying with that company. I'm all for working on the dock, but there's no column in a logbook for swamping in a single Otter. Hopefully your student has a good personality and work ethic that gets noticed by a competing company.

If you are speaking from personal experience, Sorry it didn't work out for you Slats.

[floatrfun]

Lets look at this a little closer.

One pilot works on a dock loading airplanes.

Another pilot flys in a single Otter as a swamper and gets to know the country and observe an experienced bush pilot fly and make decisions.

At the end of the season which pilot knows more about bush flying?

The Otter job sounds good to me. Wish I had the opportunity when I was looking for my first job.

[Cat Driver]

Good to see you joined the posters here floatrfun because this forum needs more posters who have the background and knowledge to give credible advice to the younguns looking for a start in aviation.

It was a pleasure meeting you and your wife last summer when we were driving back from Sask.

We plan on stopping at your place on the return trip from St.Johns in the Husky.

As we talked about last summer I am not a great fan of selling 50 hour bush flying courses as I feel the course should be geared to meeting a set goal and standard not a fixed hour standard.

If I were an employer a certificate of accomplishment from a reputable good training establishment would trump any 50 hour course.

But of course that is only my opinion.

[floatrfun]

Good to see you joined the posters here floatrfun because this forum needs more posters who have the background and knowledge to give credible advice to the younguns looking for a start in aviation.

It was a pleasure meeting you and your wife last summer when we were driving back from Sask.

We plan on stopping at your place on the return trip from St.Johns in the Husky.

As we talked about last summer I am not a great fan of selling 50 hour bush flying courses as I feel the course should be geared to meeting a set goal and standard not a fixed hour standard.

If I were an employer a certificate of accomplishment from a reputable good training establishment would trump any 50 hour course.

But of course that is only my opinion.

Hey Cat Driver,

It was great when you dropped by and hope to see you again. The wife got a kick out of you! She said to say hi. She says she also wants to meet the woman that married you hahahahaha. Yes, I know how you feel about the 50 hour course and although I see your point, Insurance companies have kindly set that standard. Our own insurance policy wouldn't let us hire anyone without at least that. Of course we are in the business of training so our standards are a lot higher anyway- wanting experienced bush pilots - are you looking for work ? However, Ideally you'll have an instructor rating too so I am not the only guy teaching PPL and CPL on floats. Doesn't pay much but I promise you, you'll have a lot of fun!

Make sure you drop by when you are in the area.

[Cat Driver]

Floatrfun I am interested in the wording of your insurance policy with regard to the fifty hour requirement, is the requirement for coverage for hull loss?

Also when sending students solo for the five solo take offs and landings and any solo for the fifty hour course?

The reason I ask is I worked directly with the insurance underwriters in Lloyds of London and had managed to set up a training course and once I signed the students off as competent after completing the course they issued full insurance coverage at four percent of hull value for hull coverage.

As a matter of interest when I was flying for Mirimax the insurance policy for the two weeks of flying was reduced by fifty one thousand dollars on the existing policy based on me being the pilot flying.

Yes I know at first glance a reduction of fifty one thousand dollars seems to be hard to believe but the policy was written for liability of eight hundred an fifty thousand dollars liability on the movie personnel and five hundred thousand dollars for the airplane.

Anyhow the subject of insurance for airplanes is an interesting one, brokers are not the ones who set rates it is the underwriters in London and they are very difficult to get to know....it took me four years even with help from my contacts in the TV and movie industry one of which was an underwriter, I was finally invited into their head office in London to present my training program and was able to convince them that they were paying out millions of dollars because they were accepting insurance applications based on pilot experience claims with no independent third party conformation that the pilots were as skilled as they claimed.

What really helped was I presented the training program just after the worst string of accidents in the European air show circuit. Being part of the group flying in said airshow circuit I was able to convince them that a in depth very high expetations training program run under their own oversight was worth trying.

I made a lot of money and to date they have saved a lot.

When I drop in on the way back from Newfoundland the four of us should go out to a restaurant and I will give you some background on how the underwriters work and why the rates are so high.

To bad I got so fu.king old and decided I had enough of flying for a living because in some ways it was quite interesting.

[Slats]

Cat and seasoned, I probably wasn't clear in my post. Of course I am making a very educated guess at who this job is for, but if I am correct, I am indeed speaking from experience, many years ago now, and I'm not trying to say that the student in question should not take the job. Unlike many many posters on here I fully support working the dock and think it is very beneficial for those who wish to begin their career in the bush. Familiar as I am with the job, I just wanted to point out that this job will NEVER in any way lead to a flying position within that company as the Otter is the only aircraft they operate. Nor will it lead to any log-able time. Cat, you are absolutely correct that a no-time pilot would learn alot working the job, I did. I also learned alot about many non-flying skills and alot about myself. I have very fond memories of that time and plenty of stories. I just wanted to illuminate the fact that the student may not be fully aware of what's in store. Fresh CPL's have, in my opinion, a tendency of being so excited about being offered any job that dangles the carrot of "right seat single Otter time" they forget to take it with a grain of salt, and miss the reality of the situation and that is that it will not provide log-able time nor the opportunity to progress to a flying position within that company due to the nature of the fleet. That is why I recommend that the person in question approach the job fully aware of the reality of the situation, but with a good attitude and strong work ethic that will get noticed by neighbouring companies that DO have fleets with options for no-timers.

[Cat Driver]

No problem Slats thanks for explaining it as you are correct in what you are advising.

[floatrfun]

Floatrfun I am interested in the wording of your insurance policy with regard to the fifty hour requirement, is the requirement for coverage for hull loss?

Also when sending students solo for the five solo take offs and landings and any solo for the fifty hour course?

The reason I ask is I worked directly with the insurance underwriters in Lloyds of London and had managed to set up a training course and once I signed the students off as competent after completing the course they issued full insurance coverage at four percent of hull value for hull coverage.

As a matter of interest when I was flying for Mirimax the insurance policy for the two weeks of flying was reduced by fifty one thousand dollars on the existing policy based on me being the pilot flying.

Yes I know at first glance a reduction of fifty one thousand dollars seems to be hard to believe but the policy was written for liability of eight hundred an fifty thousand dollars liability on the movie personnel and five hundred thousand dollars for the airplane.

Anyhow the subject of insurance for airplanes is an interesting one, brokers are not the ones who set rates it is the underwriters in London and they are very difficult to get to know....it took me four years even with help from my contacts in the TV and movie industry one of which was an underwriter, I was finally invited into their head office in London to present my training program and was able to convince them that they were paying out millions of dollars because they were accepting insurance applications based on pilot experience claims with no independent third party conformation that the pilots were as skilled as they claimed.

What really helped was I presented the training program just after the worst string of accidents in the European air show circuit. Being part of the group flying in said airshow circuit I was able to convince them that a in depth very high expetations training program run under their own oversight was worth trying.

I made a lot of money and to date they have saved a lot.

When I drop in on the way back from Newfoundland the four of us should go out to a restaurant and I will give you some background on how the underwriters work and why the rates are so high.

To bad I got so fu.king old and decided I had enough of flying for a living because in some ways it was quite interesting.

The wording is vague and doesn’t speak specifically to the 50 hours or training but rather flight training: as approved by the Insured aor Apprved pilots: as approved by the insured. I have asked my broker about this before as no where in the 47 page insurance doc does it specifically spell out. What he explained to me is when they contact the underwriters they provide the details and uses including the pilot roster. The insurance industry standard for all operators is a minimum 200 TT and 50 hours on type – our case floatplanes so therefore could never higher anyone under, nor would we want to. Our training is different as we are insured as a flight school but again no mention of specifics. Each year we have to provide our pilot roster with total time and hours on type. Even though our insurance does not specifically say we need 50 hours, it’s the industry standard and hiring less would require to make a case for it and may not get it.
For example, employing low-time bush pilots, there may be a large operator with ten pilots on their roster who have a lot of experience as a bunch but they may want to hire one guy with less than 20 hours on floats for example, the broker could present to the underwriters to see what they could offer and willing to insure the guy but you are going to have to make a case and pay more as a result. Anyways, this is how it was explained to me. All I know is each year, without any claims and accidents, my insurance is not going down and probably never will. The market for underwriters for floatplane training centres are limited.
I am sure you know alot more how this all works than I do or ever will.

[Cat Driver]

We shall discuss insurance in July when I should be on the way back home.

In the mean time you are in the best end of flight training now and it will only get better.

The secret to a successful sea plane training business is only hire the best teachers and keep building your reputation. If you can't find them just stay a one man operation.

A good sea plane instructor should make at least as much as any other high time pilot.

Never get down in the mud and compete with other operators by selling yourself short cost wise, always charge enough to pay yourself and your employees a good wage.

[Rowdy]

Never get down in the mud and compete with other operators by selling yourself short cost wise, always charge enough to pay yourself and your employees a good wage.

This should be stickied!! and I'm pretty sure it'll be my new sig. Thanks Cat!

[FighterPilot]

Got my job driving floats in NWO. Things can't be that bad.

"I'm doing alright, getting good grades... My futures so bright, I gotta wear shades... "

[pilotbc69]

Good on all of you who did get work this summer. No matter if it's sitting right seat in an Otter or loading/washing planes being treated like a slave. You are all one step closer to getting behind the wheel (unless your first job is of course). Remember there is always someone watching and sometimes it's the guy with the positive attitude who gets the first shot at actually flying. Unfortunately sometimes it's also due to someone's age or who they know but sometimes you can't change that. And those of you who haven't found anything yet don't give up. Sometimes people with the wrong attitude make room halfway through the season. Good luck to all.

[DHCdriver]

We shall discuss insurance in July when I should be on the way back home.

In the mean time you are in the best end of flight training now and it will only get better.

The secret to a successful sea plane training business is only hire the best teachers and keep building your reputation. If you can't find them just stay a one man operation.

A good sea plane instructor should make at least as much as any other high time pilot.

Never get down in the mud and compete with other operators by selling yourself short cost wise, always charge enough to pay yourself and your employees a good wage.

Amen.

[floats4fun]

As we talked about last summer I am not a great fan of selling 50 hour bush flying courses as I feel the course should be geared to meeting a set goal and standard not a fixed hour standard.

If I were an employer a certificate of accomplishment from a reputable good training establishment would trump any 50 hour course.

Where do people get the $$ to pay for 50 hours in this day in age? This is how we end up with a pool of soft/sheltered little pricks who work for nothing. Mom and Dad pay for little Jimmy to do something with himself because they're worried video games are taking over his life...don't worry about the expenses Jimmy, we'll take care of that...sheesh I cant believe 50 hour courses are still around.

[Rowdy]

I still dont have nything locked down for 2010...