Ice Pilots of NWT Series on History Channel this Fall!

[Cat Driver]

It is interesting to note that the best short landing pilots in Alaska wheel land their Super Cubs to get the shortest landing.

I am a firm believer in using an AOA indicator for high alfa approaches and wheeling it on at the bottom of the approach...I can stop shorter that way.

At the moment I am adding a mounting bracket in the wing of my Cub for the AOA probe.

[Lurch]

It is interesting to note that the best short landing pilots in Alaska wheel land their Super Cubs to get the shortest landing.

I am a firm believer in using an AOA indicator for high alfa approaches and wheeling it on at the bottom of the approach...I can stop shorter that way.

At the moment I am adding a mounting bracket in the wing of my Cub for the AOA probe.

Cat you don't/shouldn't need to reply to the idiocy being posted here.

Most of us realise that they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Replying just validates their need to post more dribble. It was funny at first, now it's just sad.

Lurch

[Cat Driver]

Yeh Lurch I know and it gets frustrating.

However there a lot of people who read these discussions who will believe some of these goofy ideas that get posted here from time to time.....that is why I debate some of the more goofy things that get put forward as fact here.

That and I now have the time to hang around this site and try and pick the fly shit out of the pepper.

[old metal]

Jeremy, whats the whole story here, how is it Buffalo's most senior rampie gets laid off? I mean you had all your training done and were ready for your ride, thats a considerable investment. Did they lay off everyone or what?

[Siddley Hawker]

There have been comments about doing what it takes to get the job done, on this thread. From another board, here's how another airline handled a rejected takeoff and subsequent overrun.

Original question:
Can anyone fill this 51yo in with some information please?
I was a 14yo on his first trip abroad in 1973 from Luton to Ibiza. Flew out on the orange Tristar, Halcyon Days, due to fly back on the pink Halcayon Breeze. Take-off was aborted rather dramatically (or so it seemed to those on board). Aircraft could not take off due to tech issues and we were taken back next day on a number of smaller aircraft, me on a Caravelle, others on 1-11's.
Don't know any proper details of this incident, but as you can imagine for a 14yo, it was very exciting, and of course back at school as the story was re-counted it became a near death from which all of us were lucky to survive.

The reply:
The aicraft suffered a tyre busrt at V1

The crew heard and felt the bang so aborted.
During the Hi Speed rejection 5 of the other 7 tyres burst ( same union I guess)
We got the call at Luton and two immediate problems - The Palma El Commandante was screaming for us to get the aircraft off the runway and second how the hell to move 400 pax in the season
Well pulled 3 BAC 1-11's off the line and removed all the seats from one and put them into the other two and they winged off their merry way. The empty aircraft we loaded with wheels, jacks and tooling and set off in hot pursuit.
As the L1011 was at one end of the runway they were still using the remaining length so after we landed we put the seats into the 3rd BAC and then set to retrieving the L1011. Quite a night !!

[Indanao]

Just thought this was worth reading: http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/gallery?35008

[Doc]

Jeremy, whats the whole story here, how is it Buffalo's most senior rampie gets laid off? I mean you had all your training done and were ready for your ride, thats a considerable investment. Did they lay off everyone or what?

Simple answer is: Companies who hire pilots to work the ramp, can and do pretty much whatever they like. Joe, 1965 just called. They want to know if you made it through "Y2K"??
Lesson? Don't work ramps. This guy has been with Joe for a year and a half.....and still has 250 hours! Two years from now, he'll still have 250 hours, if he keeps working ramps.

[Doc]

Gee Jeromy, this guy did it: http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/story?1220

Actually, was talking Cross Wind ( strong as you get ). Fly it close, and float till you have to do a Short Field. Really short field, and you will 3point. Jeromy, ( sorry,went to night school and can't spell in the daytime. ) had the only right answer. Cat has a dog named, "Doc". Nobody would trash their experience, but - get a life.

And, nobody would advocate 3point landings in a DC3, " Camwhilewolf "

Indanao....how much time you got in Daks?

[canwhitewolf]

Gee Jeromy, this guy did it: http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/story?1220

Actually, was talking Cross Wind ( strong as you get ). Fly it close, and float till you have to do a Short Field. Really short field, and you will 3point. Jeromy, ( sorry,went to night school and can't spell in the daytime. ) had the only right answer. Cat has a dog named, "Doc". Nobody would trash their experience, but - get a life.

And, nobody would advocate 3point landings in a DC3, " Camwhilewolf "

********************************************************************




I dont recommend 3 wheels touching down at the same time in the DC-3.

It can be done reasonably safely if one is practiced at it AND but it will put more stress on the airframe if not done correctly

remember, there just is not the directional control with the tail down as w/ the tail up.

and this applies double if there is a cross wind

wheel landings are better and safer! ie on the mains

http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc3throt/dc3throt.htm

[Doc]

canwhitewolf, wheel landings are just the mains. (I don't know why the confusion here) There is more than enough elevator control to overcome any tendency for the aircraft to nose over due to braking. We used to wheel taxi the things around Toronto all the time. Otherwise, it's a long taxi to the south end for the go. You could stop it dead on the mains, but then the tail drop wouldn't be very pretty, but it wouldn't fall on it's nose.

[canwhitewolf]

canwhitewolf, wheel landings are just the mains. (I don't know why the confusion here) There is more than enough elevator control to overcome any tendency for the aircraft to nose over due to braking. We used to wheel taxi the things around Toronto all the time. Otherwise, it's a long taxi to the south end for the go. You could stop it dead on the mains, but then the tail drop wouldn't be very pretty, but it wouldn't fall on it's nose.

**********************************************************************

not sure what you are saying the above for - did i type something confusing?

Im advocating main wheel landings and disputing 3 points


edit (i rewrote what i said previously as it was confusing) my apologies

[icepilotjeremy]

Jeremy, whats the whole story here, how is it Buffalo's most senior rampie gets laid off? I mean you had all your training done and were ready for your ride, thats a considerable investment. Did they lay off everyone or what?

Buffalo's most senior rampie gets "laid off" when he pisses off a courier manager in Edmonton, who in turn tells Joe that I am a screw up. This happened at the same time that Joe saw a pre-screening of the show and decided that I was a whiney bastard. Then I got laid off after a year there. Due to the economic downturn..... right before winter, getting rid of one of your only rampies with winter experience..... (I hate to say this stuff about a company that I dont work for anymore.... it's not cool, and I know it. Of course it is the only way to answer questions like that )

[icepilotjeremy]

Jeremy, whats the whole story here, how is it Buffalo's most senior rampie gets laid off? I mean you had all your training done and were ready for your ride, thats a considerable investment. Did they lay off everyone or what?

Simple answer is: Companies who hire pilots to work the ramp, can and do pretty much whatever they like. Joe, 1965 just called. They want to know if you made it through "Y2K"??
Lesson? Don't work ramps. This guy has been with Joe for a year and a half.....and still has 250 hours! Two years from now, he'll still have 250 hours, if he keeps working ramps.

Doc, I really do think it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. You can start off by spending your time throwing meat bombs out of a 182 or you can start off by working your balls off on the ramp. The company I am with now is really straight up and good to me. There's a chance of coming straight off the ramp into a 705 bird. I am willing to put in some time and effort to make that possibility happen.

[icepilotjeremy]

I'm just over 250 hrs.

Holy Sh!!t dude. I got my commercial 4 years ago and now have 550 total time, 16 hours on floats. Ive never worked a day of ramp in my life and make a good living at the career I am in now and fly when I want and dont put up with some of the crap you do. You must have a huge huge desire to fly. You gotta get flying dude!!! Maybe you should take a year off and make some cash at another job and just fly a couple hundred hours. Sh!t ill let you fly my plane for strait gas if it means it will help you at least build a couple hunderd hours. PIC time is PIC time even if its a small Cessna. Good on you for your determination.

Thanks KIP. May take you up on that one day I worked forestry for a couple years to pay off my commercial license and save enough to do a group 1 IFR. Now I am going to park myself somewhere that will give me an airplane and with any luck, some money to go along with it. Time flies when you're working the ramp, so I'll keep working. I'll see a right seat sometime, and until then, I will just keep impressing my bosses if I can.

[icepilotjeremy]

Jeremy: Thanks for sharing with us. Most of us enjoy watching the show.

Can you tell/are you allowed to tell us what really happened with the 215 in turkey? Maybe with a little behind the scene gravy:)


good luck getting off the ramp

Hawk

Dont think there was any behind the scenes entertainment to be had. We knew about as much as viewers did.... I mean, if ever you're going to forget the gear it's when you're flying an amphib, switching out student pilots in the circuit, after doing a very similar excersise on a nearby lake without those pesky wheels to think about.

[Meatservo]

You can start off by spending your time throwing meat bombs out of a 182 or you can start off by working your balls off on the ramp.

MEAT BOMBS.

I haven't heard that one before. That's pretty funny.

[Lost in Saigon]

North America = feet
Europe = Meters for altitude

What are you talking about? ATC in Europe uses feet or Flight Levels just like most places in the world. Only Russia, China, and North Korea use meters.

[Otterflogger]

Hey, IcePilotJeremy! I hope your "financial compensation" for being a "Star" of a "hit show" was adequate!

Cheers,

Steve

[NWONT]

Otterflogger, thats exactly what I've been thinking. Joe, obviously made a pile of cash on this show I thought the stars are entitled to a share based on popularity.

[Cobra64]

I'm just over 250 hrs.

Holy Sh!!t dude. I got my commercial 4 years ago and now have 550 total time, 16 hours on floats. Ive never worked a day of ramp in my life and make a good living at the career I am in now and fly when I want and dont put up with some of the crap you do. You must have a huge huge desire to fly. You gotta get flying dude!!! Maybe you should take a year off and make some cash at another job and just fly a couple hundred hours. Sh!t ill let you fly my plane for strait gas if it means it will help you at least build a couple hunderd hours. PIC time is PIC time even if its a small Cessna. Good on you for your determination.

Thanks KIP. May take you up on that one day I worked forestry for a couple years to pay off my commercial license and save enough to do a group 1 IFR. Now I am going to park myself somewhere that will give me an airplane and with any luck, some money to go along with it. Time flies when you're working the ramp, so I'll keep working. I'll see a right seat sometime, and until then, I will just keep impressing my bosses if I can.

When you were at Buffalo how many people did you see go from the ramp to the elusive right seat?

[nimbostratus]

Got you beat by say 4000hrs but hey I guess your the expert

IF you watch any conventional gear airplane land in a strong cross wind, it will 3 Point. Why?

Interesting. I fly a tricycle gear aircraft. Is that what you mean by conventional? Or are you referring to a tailwheel aircraft as being conventional? I think the each age group of a pilot may have a different definition for the word "conventional".

If you are referring to a trike (nose gear aircraft) landing on three wheels in a crosswind you are incorrect. It's always upwind main, downwind main, then nose. The only difference I am aware of is flying an aircraft with a low wing and underwing mounted engines that are far from the fuselage. B-52, 747, A340 etc. These aircraft are designed to land in a partial crab so they don't impact the outboard engine with the runway on touchdown. These guys still do their very best to straighten the fuselage as much as possible in the last 10-20 feet with a coordinated rudder and aileron input.

If you meant conventional being a tailwheel aircraft you can disregard my above post. Just thought the correction should be here if there was a misconception with your terminology from the up and coming pilots.
(I have no experience in tail wheel aircraft so I can't comment in any way on their operation)


Nimbo


P.S. Jeremy, If you are ever in CYYC PM me. I'll buy you a beer (or coffee if I'm on the clock).

[Cat Driver]

icepilotjeremy for what ever it is worth based on what I have seen of you on that series I would hire you anytime.

The only difference in your work duties would be if the only job I had for a short period was working the ramp you would get enough stick time in an airplane to keep current and learn the routes until a full time flying position opened up.

[iflyforpie]

Got you beat by say 4000hrs but hey I guess your the expert

IF you watch any conventional gear airplane land in a strong cross wind, it will 3 Point. Why?

Interesting. I fly a tricycle gear aircraft. Is that what you mean by conventional? Or are you referring to a tailwheel aircraft as being conventional? I think the each age group of a pilot may have a different definition for the word "conventional".

Conventional is tail-wheel. A long time ago all airplanes were tail wheel except for a few 'radical' designs like the P-38, B-24, and Ercoupe. Just like 'standard' transmissions are hardly standard anymore.

I was in a nice 180HP 170B last week and after shutting down I did my normal release the seat belt and slide the chair back to get out like I do on every other plane I fly. I nearly wound up in the baggage compartment! Too bad there aren't more of these aircraft around...

We have some pretty wicked cross winds here and pretty much everybody (including myself) wheel lands. More control, easer to touch down straight. Once wheels are on the runway, the battle is half over. I wouldn't want to be wallowing just above the stall trying to three-point and get to the ground crooked.

[Cat Driver]

More control, easer to touch down straight. Once wheels are on the runway, the battle is half over. I wouldn't want to be wallowing just above the stall trying to three-point and get to the ground crooked.

And the lighter the aircraft the more it is subject to air current movement.

[niss]

I hear wheel landing an aircraft is usually preferred as belly & prop repair can be quite costly.