Recip. Jumpseat - New Rates?

[F-16]

There is a rumour going around that the reciprocal jumpseat rates for flights on WJ are going up along with your own Employee Standby Travel Rates....

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Also, has the number for listing changed?

It is nice to have other options when travelling, but it would be really nice to have the cost equal to the other carriers that don't charge WJ crews for using a reciprocal jumpseat pass.

Thanks for your time.

[Four1oh]

I've heard nothing of the sort... although the boys next door seem to be having that issue.

[WF9F]

That is only at Jazz not at AC. They are seperate airlines now.

[Bede]

JZA and AC pilots pay more for the JS on WJ than vice versa, but WJ will fill the plane with J/S'ers where Red team will only put 1 JS in. It all evens out.

[Brick Head]

Bede,

I agree that has value. I like the option and really don't want to loose it.

But there is a backlash brewing on the AC side over the WJ reciprocal J/S program.

-Many are upset, have been since the beginning, that the system is not true reciprocal. Are threatening not to sign the coupon for WJ commuters until it is addressed.

Add to that, this next bit of info is just starting to emerge. I don't know if it is true, or rather spin by those who seek to end the program but it seems to be gaining traction. You know what it is like. When people don't like something they believe anything negative they hear about it. It is why these little irritants, that in the end are false, keep popping up.

-Does AC really pay the AIF, NAV, and security fees out of pocket for the reciprocal program, whereas WJ has these costs covered by the AC commuter?

-Apparently there a lot more WJ commuters on AC, since it is free, than AC pilots on WJ. Not sure how they would know this. But there are accusations that the program is subsidizing WJ pilots commute at the expence of AC's bottom line.

For your consideration. Again I have no idea how much, if any, maybe all of it, is BS.

[CCR]

Guys/gals at AC/Jazz are upset over the inequality of the Recip agreements? So cancel it. Let's see how the Jazz/AC pilots who do value it feel about their "upset" cohorts! Durf was asked about canceling the fee back in the fall. His direct response was " No, not while I'm CEO."


Maybe, the WJPA is putting pressure on the exec's behind the scenes. Maybe it'll change. Maybe it won't.

In the mean time, welcome aboard to the JAZZ and AC guys who fly with us. Come up and say hi!

[Brick Head]

CCR,

Your not getting the full picture. AC's initial response to this is to start charging for the J/S. If they do this, AC and Jazz pilots will be punted from every recip agreement in the world.

We may be forced to make to make a choice here.

[netty]

I have used and greatly appreciated the agreement as an AC pilot. I occasionally stop in and say hello, but most days I'm just looking forward to getting away from everything aviation for a few days and can't wait to get off of the aircraft - no matter which company is operating it.

I don't think it is right that we pay while WJ doesn't, but I also appreciate the fact that any open seat is available on WJ. I can also appreciate that an airline would no longer be content to ignore the airport fees etc. that are involved.

It is the new reality that pilots are no longer able to truly reciprocate anything in aviation. Management and bean counters on both sides are taking away our ability to have any kind of professional courtesy for one another.

Let's not join them in the race to the bottom.

[CCR]

Brick Head. You're right. I'm not getting "your" full picture. Maybe you can clarify. From your post, are you suggesting that it's a direct result of our Company's decision to charge Recip pilots that is causing AC/Jazz management to possibly charge as well? Ok, I think that is a bit of a stretch. You can believe that if you wish of course.

This is the picture I see. We have a Reciprocal Pilot agreement with AC and Jazz. We charge $X.XX which activates the taxes and fees. We have no limit (space available) to how many pilots are on board the aircraft. AC and Jazz charges no fees (who pays the taxes and fees?). The number of recip pilots is limited to available jumpseats in the FD. Our CEO has said no change as long as he is the CEO. The WJPA continues to lobby. Hmmm, am I missing anything in this picture? You want me to personally lobby my CEO to change his mind because the AC and Jazz CEO's have "possibly" decided to start charging and it's not so much our agreement your worried about but your agreements with other majors that you are worried about? Sorry here are my priorities, Family, Work and FLICA!! LOL...the last was a joke...sort of....



edited the "charge"

[balfour]

Get rid of it!!!!! Enough of this bullshit generator.

[KAG]

Why not just charge us WJ pilots what we charge you? Would that still have a backlash from other carriers? If so why? It doesn't affect them. I'd gladly pay for the privilege.

As someone pointed out, while Durf is CEO of WJ, this will not change. I'm going to guess he's trying to prevent any backlash from our other work groups, which seriously outnumbers the pilot group.
These other groups don’t understand the tradition behind the JS agreement, and would bitch about not having something similar. Durf, while bucking tradition with his pilots, is trying to be fair with the masses. While I disagree with charging for JS in principle, I understand his intent.
Please believe us there is an ongoing debate on our internal forum about this, hopefully it can be resolved.

[mikeecho]

As a non-pilot, here's my perspective:

1) If there was no cost involved (ie. AIF, etc... - I'm not counting extra fuel, etc... because that's way too petty), then I could care less about recip jump seats.

2) If my company has to pay the AIF, etc... so that a pilot of another airline can ride for free, then I'm totally against it. That goes for all carriers. WJ should charge AC pilots and AC should charge WJ pilots for the cost of the flight. LH pilots should charge AC pilots for the cost too. Why should a carrier be out of pocket to cover the costs of a commuting pilot?

I do question the entitlement sentiment that pilots have about the jumpseat. Sure, it used to be standard perk in the industry, but in the old days the airport managers used to have fireplaces in their office and smoke cigars while sipping cognac all day as they sexually harassed the hot young secretary!! Now they work 60 hours a week, lose their hair early, take crap from all ends and scrape a few nickels off the budget each year...things change in this business!!

If we want the good ol' days, let's dust off the DC3's and go all in.

[CanadaEH]

I do question the entitlement sentiment that pilots have about the jumpseat.

Entitlement? In the aviation industry!? NO WAY!!

[Arctic84]

mikeecho and Canadaeh.

Would you agree that since the company has seen fit to hand authority for the jumpseat to CSA'a, that they should change the COM to reflect that reality? As it stands now, the Captain still has to bear the responsibility for those jumpseaters.

[moreccsplease]

I'm pretty sure that AC bills ACPA/ALPA for the costs of the reciprocal jumpseater on board (ie: AIF, security charges). Therefore it is the AC and Jazz pilots that are paying for any reciprocal pilot on board an AC or Jazz flight, through their union dues.

Here is what ACPA and ALPA should pressure for: open up every available seat and keep paying the fees for the reciprocal jumpseaters.

Here is what WJPA should do internally: offer to pay Westjet the corporation, for the costs incurred by a reciprocal jumpseater, which would be paid for through their association dues, just like the AC and Jazz pilots are doing.

There we go, unlimited, free reciprocal jumpseating. Just as it is in the USA.

And it is true, lots of airline pilot groups in the world will NOT sign on to a reciprocal jumpseat agreement if there are any charges involved.

And on a final note; Transport Canada has allowed now for sometime a reciprocal jumpseater to be allowed back into the Flight Deck jumpseat. None of the companies (AC, Jazz, Westjet) have updated their COMs to allow for this yet. We need to fight for this right.

[ODA]

Excellent idea!!

[Rotten Apple #1]

moreccplease, my WJPA dues are $2.50 per paycheck. Those are not likely to pay any fees etc, nor are they likely to go up.

Much as it's a great perk to have, if AC/ACJ want out, oh well. They have to do what's best for them.

[CanadaEH]

Would you agree that since the company has seen fit to hand authority for the jumpseat to CSA'a, that they should change the COM to reflect that reality? As it stands now, the Captain still has to bear the responsibility for those jumpseaters.

That's a twisted sense of reality, don't you think? First - I'm not looking to pick a fight with anyone. I think this industry is full of people feeling like they're entitled to something and that covers all positions and all walks of life, which is why I even commented in this thread. Second - the CSA's don't have "authority" for the jumpseat; they follow a Company policy that states employees can fly jumpseat provided they a> have the OK from the pilots, b> have priority, and c> have their WestJet ID on them. Third - I won't wade into the debate of what "resonsibility" the Captain bears, but the pilots have the right to refuse anyone from flying in the jumpseat. It's all (2 jumpseats) or none (no jumpseats). Again, that is a Company policy.

What the CSA's don't have the authority to do is pick and chose who flies in the jumpseat outside of the priority list. It's all or none. The same thing goes for the Captain: he/she doesn't have the authority to pick and chose but he/she does have the ability to refuse anyone from flying in the jumpseat.

So to answer your question: no, I don't think the Company needs to change the COM. Outside of a few pilots who feel they're better than everyone else (including the one prick that denied me but took his pilot buddy coming back from vacation - even though I had priority), most of the pilots I've come across have no problem helping someone get on a flight to get to where they're going, for whatever reason they're going. THAT is why our Company is what it is.

[rudder]

There are only two reasons that a company should support the Off-Line Jumpseat Program.

One - it enhances flight safety by having a qualified professional as either an extra set of eyes on the flight deck or an extra body in the cabin to be used in the event of an emergency or other in-flight disturbance.

Two - it is bargained by a pilot group that has collective bargaining rights.

The notion that it is a program designed for freebie pilot travel is what draws negative attention to an otherwise valuable and useful program. The Americans understand this program implicitly and employers are willing to make significant investments in infrastructure to make it work (i.e. CASS). It is clear that in Canada neither the users nor the employers have the sophistication to make it work. As a result, it will likely implode. Congrats.

[stickontheice]

I would be completely for a fund supported by the pilots through the WJPA for the Recips. Especially if AC/Jazz agreed to open up as many empty seats as there were on the plane. After all the work it took each and every one of us to get to the airlines shouldn't we at the very least get this privilege figured out?

[anonymity]

Curious about this new policy, the scenario, I book a round trip and pay with my credit card. I take the first leg or portion of the booking, but I can't make it on the return portion. If I don't call ahead of time to cancel, I lose the return portion. Where's the money go? It came off my credit card now it's just vanished into the WJ bank account.
Why is your management making things more difficult? Are they quietly trying to end this recip agreement?
The above mentioned scenario, I was able to call and cancel and when the agent on the other end told me that 18.55 was to be put in my travel bank, I said excuse me, but 1 way is around 29 dollars why is it only 19 is being refunded. Anyhow I was on hold for 22 mins while he sorted this out and almost had to hang up while my flight was boarding.
So as far as this new policy goes, I guess my only option will be to book a one way, and pay at the check in counter when checking in, ie; when I know for sure I will be travelling. I was stressed the whole time thinking that if I don't make it back in time to call, or if I'm on hold too long, I'm out 29 dollars.
This policy stinks and is borderline theft, at least if I book on my own airline and don't make it, I won't be out of pocket. Between the fact you don't pay and we do and this I don't think it will be around for long and that is probably what your CEO is after.In my humble opinion

[RFN]

I commuted down to Toronto last week on the Blue Team, and had a conversation with the Captain about the travel fees being forfeited if you don't fly.
He is on the jumpseat commitee with WestJet and he said it's a temporary glitch in the new system that if you don't board, or check in, once the flight is closed, it punts the locator out. He said they are going to fix it, and that we should ask the agent on the phone when we are booking to set it up so that we don't loose our dollar-ee-doos.

That said, I still really appreciate the options that our agreement provides, and I really really appreciate the fact that regardless of the $2.50 fare, it's much cheaper than the service charges on Air Canada's as well as our own planes.

I hope the lost locator thing is corrected, but let's not let this derail what is a good thing for everyone.

[marquisman]

Would have loved to have been able to pay on Air Canada the other night going to ydf. Another pilot checked in before me and I had to spend another night in a hotel with about 30 empty seats. I use it for necessity and luckily this never happens to me. Would I pay and be sure to get on, you better believe it.