Set Heading Points

[peters]

Has there ever been a time where a Set Heading Point didn't exist for planning cross countries? I had someone mention that he was never taught this when he took his licence, yet they still used drift lines. I don't understand how drift lines would tell you how much correction you need to apply to your drift if you never began your planned heading over the point that the drift lines originated at. Is there an old school way of planning a cross crounty that isn't used anymore?

[Cat Driver]

Is there an old school way of planning a cross crounty that isn't used anymore?

I was taught to map read.

[flyinthebug]

Is there an old school way of planning a cross crounty that isn't used anymore?

I was taught to map read.

Me too. My 1st CP handed me a map @ 500 ft and shut off all nav aids and said find us and then get us home, maintain 500' AGL. Home was YRL and we were somewhere around North Spirit. I learned fast and was grateful for the map reading courses that I took during my PPL & CPL.

To answer your question, the "old school" ways are going mostly by the wayside. NDB`s are giving way to GPS etc etc. In 10 yrs ILS will also be a thing of the past. The drift lines every 20 NM`s or so are pretty and such.. But it seems they have very little relevance to today`s graduating pilots. That was and remains the one thing I find hard to accept about the new group of pilots, is almost none can read a map, nor were they tasked to very much in school. Being able to read a map has saved some bacon over the yrs. I know it saved mine. Its a skill that no "failed" new tech nav aid can duplicate.

Fly safe.

[peters]

I'm not referring to dead reckoning, I'm refering to the really long and painful type of flight planning that goes out the door as soon as you have your licence, involving track lines, divergence lines, and a planned constant heading. How do divergence/drift lines mean anything if you don't start the lines at the point that you start your planned constant heading???

Is this actually a form of flight planning taught prior to creating the set heading point and if so what is the point of having drift lines?

[IBPilot]

Is there an old school way of planning a cross crounty that isn't used anymore?

I was taught to map read.

Its a skill that no "failed" new tech nav aid can duplicate.

Yes!! Very true... during my PPL License, on my first solo cross country, my trusting GPS failed. Being the student I was, I pulled out my map for the first time during the flight (the one that I had spent over an hour preparing) and basically had to locate my position by looking at the nearby rivers and towns to locate where I was. The lessons my Flight Instructor gave me on map reading and how to identify towns based on if they were railroad towns or the identification of rivers really was worth it.

However, these Map reading skills is something that is not taught everywhere. My buddy got his license on the East coast and his instructor never really taught him how to find his position on his VNC if his nav aids were to fail.

Back to the question of Set Heading Points, I cannot imagine doing a corss country without one. Even if you have a GPS route planned, YOU NEED A SET HEADING POINT TO GET THE AIRPLANE FLYING ON THE CORRECT ROUTE TO THE DESTINATION. One might say that they can select a destination that is due east and it will take exactly 60 minutes of flying and the pilot will get there by simply looking at the landmarks on the ground and flying to the destination.

Keep in mind that VFROTT cannot rely on naviagtion by landmarks so set heading points become all that more essential. Also flying up north where there is little to visually see may also spark the need for set heading points for navigation.

Cheers

[IBPilot]

How do divergence/drift lines mean anything if you don't start the lines at the point that you start your planned constant heading???

They dont!!! Simple as that. If there is no origin, the drift lines can't be based off of anything. If you are flying from point A to point B, your drift lines (if you have any) must start at point A. The point of drift lines is to establish the airplane back onto the assigned course from point A to point B if the pilot gets off the predetermined course.

Luke

[Bushav8er]

Look at it this way.

If you really have no idea, once in the air, as to where you are and where you are going, then you would tend to depart by climbing out and circling around to the Set Heading point and pick up the heading. BUT if you 'have a clue' you don't actually have to BE ON (over) the point to proceed from it. In other words; when leaving your home in Toronto to visit a friend in Montreal, you don't have to be at your doorway to say 'you're departing', driving down your street is enough.

Your instructor knows that you are leaving from ABC and going to XYZ so he draws drift lines from there to 'bracket' his track. When he departs he knows that if he stays anywhere near the line - that road is near it, that town is near it, my heading is right - he's on track. If he loses it a little he knows that he should still be inside the drift lines and can use it get get back on (or near) it again.

[IBPilot]

Is this actually a form of flight planning taught prior to creating the set heading point and if so what is the point of having drift lines?

OK, I am now going to attempt to answer this one big question of yours.
- Drift lines are formally taught in flight navigation for the PPL License.
- You DO learn the importance of a set heading point before learning drift lines because they are based off of the set heading point.
- A set heading point is essentially a heading that a pilot selects to be his outbound heading from his origin to his destination. If you are flying to a destination that is due east of your origin, after taking into account variation and deviation and winds, a pilot selects a heading to get him to his destination. Now for trips where there are multiple checkpoints along the way, multiple set heading points may be used. For example, if you are flying over a body of water in a Cessna 172 and you cannot climb high enough to meet the minimum glide requirements, then you plan to fly around the body of water or deviate from your line of direct travel to suit the glide requirements in case of engine failure. To do this, you might fly 080 to the southern half of the lake and then 120 to your destination. In this case, I would have two set heading points. My drift lines would originate from each of those heading points. From point A (080) to the southern point of the lake would be one set of drift lines, from the south part of the lake (120) to destination would be a new set of drift lines. Each set of drift lines originates from each new set heading point origin.
- The purpose of drift lines basically allow a pilot to "get back on track" if they deviate from their originally determined path.

A GPS also helps to confirm your map reading along the way but in the event it fails, your map work (set heading points and drift lines) become very handy.

I hope this attempted to answer your question.

Cheers
Luke

[Cat Driver]

I have never ever used or drawn drift lines on any map ever.

How did I manage to navigate VFR?

Someone mentioned the need to have a set heading point when using GPS.

I found a secret way to do that that I will share.

Select direct to.

[Bushav8er]

I have never ever used or drawn drift lines on any map ever.

How did I manage to navigate VFR?

Someone mentioned the need to have a set heading point when using GPS.

I found a secret way to do that that I will share.

Select direct to.

LOL.
Navigation Training:
Step 1) Remove GPS from aircraft.
Step 2) Issue 3 maps; each of different scale
Step 3) Issue pencil.

Now ET (Eager Trainee) - go home.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Back to the question of Set Heading Points, I cannot imagine doing a corss country without one. Even if you have a GPS route planned, YOU NEED A SET HEADING POINT TO GET THE AIRPLANE FLYING ON THE CORRECT ROUTE TO THE DESTINATION. One might say that they can select a destination that is due east and it will take exactly 60 minutes of flying and the pilot will get there by simply looking at the landmarks on the ground and flying to the destination.

Keep in mind that VFROTT cannot rely on naviagtion by landmarks so set heading points become all that more essential. Also flying up north where there is little to visually see may also spark the need for set heading points for navigation.

Cheers

Actually the only thing you "need to do is" is keep track of your position on the ground. This is especially true when using GPS. When flying VFR I usually go GPS direct and I always have my Map out and keep my finger moving along as the flight progresses. That way I have situational awareness of the surrounding terrrain (particularly important in the Mountains) and if I need to divert or the GPS fails I know where I want to go. I have not actually drawn a line on a Map in over 20 years.

Well you say "what if you don't have a GPS". My response is simple ....No GPS = Stupid pilot. Why on earth would you want to deprive yourself of such a usefull navigational aid, particularly when you can get older style handhelds on e-bay for the same price as one hour of dual on a twin ?

But I still support covering set heading points and drift lines in initital training because it gives the student an understanding of the base principals of all navigation, including map reading, drift, crab , variation etc etc and in any case they have to demonstate it all on the flight test. The problem is there is no usually no effort on the part of FTU's to situate those principals in the context of how you navigate in the real world. The result is the student quickly realises that nobody actually flight plans using a form with 150 boxes that takes an hour to fill out, ignores everything they were taught to pass the flight test, and then goes on to figure how to navigate in a practical way by trial and error.

[iflyforpie]

I found a secret way to do that that I will share.

Select direct to.

I think a lot of the way we learn nav comes from Bomber Command and the way they used to dead reckon on the way to Cologne or Dresden if their H2S sets or Oboe signals were jammed.

In this day and age, it is probably to make the student aware of the things that affect navigation and that even the most precise planning for the most part goes out the window once you get in the air.

I map read more than I use my GPS (GPS doesn't really help if you fly irregular courses) and I find even if I keep it simple, my ETAs aren't too far off and I don't get lost.

My sophisticated method of planning is to take a WAC and make goat horns with my right hand spread the pointer and pinky out as far as possible, and use that to measure an hour's flight in the plane I fly. It's been pretty accurate so far...

Once you are in the real world if you really want to cover the bases, do this:

Draw a line between your departure and destination (don't bother with a SHP). Use a protractor (or convenient VOR rose) to measure the bearing. Measure the distance with a chart rule. Use the average cruise speed of the aircraft to figure out time en-route (not the POH numbers, a 172 or PA-28 = 100 KTS, a 182 or 206 = 120 KTS). Get your upper winds and mentally wag it to see if you have a tail, head, or cross wind and pad the time or crab accordingly.

[Stan Darsh]

+1 to BPF's post. A good foundation is necessary at the PPL stage - drift lines, hash marks, set heading points and checkpoints are all really there to get the student thinking about all of the planning factors. All those "nav logs" every FTU makes you fill out are a waste of time once you've had some experience - you should always be aware of your position anyway. I remember getting chewed out for not filling one of those sheets completely - which was frustrating considering anyone with half a brain can figure out their average GS, ETA and required heading at any point during a flight without diddling around with a form. That should be back-up enough if your GPS bites it.

[Cat Driver]

Back in the days I owned a flight school I had an early morning flight to drop off a couple of people at Seatac to catch a flight somewhere.

When I walked into the office two of my instructors were just starting to plan a cross country with two PPL students.

I flight filed an IFR flight plan took off climbed to FL210 landed at Seatac dropped off the passengers grabbed a clearance back to Nanaimo landed put the Turbo Commander back in the hangar and went back to my office and these instructors were still flight planning their X/countries.

Amazing.

[YOWza]

I was taught to map read.

+1

I was taught enroute style departures along with strong lessons in pilotage and dead reckoning in the US. We also used nice, neat, and to the point flight planning sheets...not a confusing 20 year old piece of unimproved legacy that flight schools up here seem to abide by. I didn't even deal with drift lines and SHP until coming to Canada and instructing (which at the time I had about 500 hours of SHP-free XC and didn't ever get lost.). It's a bit of overkill, really. If you're only going 95 knots and you get lost, then it was probably poor mapreading skills that got you there (Or maybe staring down at the E6B for so long...). A lot of instructors seem to be quite dogmatic in their instruction and believe that you have to have every field in every form filled out to the 'T' to have a successful XC flight. Not so. Proper mapreading and estimation of ETA has to be impressed upon a student so they can be constantly aware of their position and have some idea of when they'll be at the next landmark(s). I can't tell you how many students and renters I've seen bust airspace and break other regs because they really didn't know where they were at. In the post-infraction debrief you always find out that they didn't know how to mapread.

[rjonno]

Once flew with a guy who used birds hill park as a SHP flying from CYAV to CYAX. In a G1000 DA40. Perhaps this information is too local for some of you..

-Jonathan G.
CYWG

[IBPilot]

Once flew with a guy who used birds hill park as a SHP flying from CYAV to CYAX. In a G1000 DA40. Perhaps this information is too local for some of you..

-Jonathan G.
CYWG

Geez, thats my SHP. I used it a few times when I was doing a x-xountry from YAV - YAX - CKK7. Thought I was the only one in Manitoba who used Birds Hill as a SHP.

[Randleman]

To answer the OP,

Every now and again (When I am in the middle of nowhere with no landmarks for SHP) I'll use the airport as my SHP, figure out where I am going to level off, along the track, and start my drift lines from there.

[Invertago]

Not to derail the topic here, but...

Does anyone ever pay any attention or find any use for the whole compass "Accelerate North Deaccelerate South" and "Lag North, Lead South" stuff TC keeps putting in all the written exams?

Does anyone here still use their E6B in flight outside of training?

Does anyone here draw drift lines outside of training?

I personally like to navigate by just looking at the map and out the window. My hand is 30nm wide, works great when I flight plan to tell me how long a trip is. My thumb is 5nm wide works great measure out the finer details. Hmmm with measurements in the nautical miles, I must look like Paul Bunyan!

But seriously shouldn't the CPL include a segment on how a real commercial flight operates? Any CPL who takes over an hour to plan a 200nm charter trip would likely be fired, unless in that same hour he managed to get the plane out, load it and fuel it in the same time frame.

[Dust Devil]

I personally like to navigate by just looking at the map and out the window. My hand is 30nm wide, works great when I flight plan to tell me how long a trip is. My thumb is 5nm wide works great measure out the finer details. Hmmm with measurements in the nautical miles, I must look like Paul Bunyan!

Ya know that's actually a pretty good tip. I've never thought of that before.

[Cobra64]

I did my PPL in a Citabria, it had nothing for nav aids. No VOR, ADF, GPS. All it had was windows. I never got lost, and I don't think there was ever a time when I couldn't point exactly where I was on my map. In building time for CPL I started flying the 172s with either G1000 or 430s, which was fine, but every now and then I will put the G1000 into revisionary mode or set the 430 page to AUX or something that won't give me any information. I guess that is the point of training hey, to work on the basic skills so that one day when you need them they are there.

[iflyforpie]

Does anyone ever pay any attention or find any use for the whole compass "Accelerate North Deaccelerate South" and "Lag North, Lead South" stuff TC keeps putting in all the written exams?.

These are the most useless rules taught in flight training.

If you are ever lost in the woods with somebody who has a compass, and they are looking at it while they are walking to find a way out, don't follow them. They are going to be lost far longer than you will be.

I learned how to use a compass back when I was in Scouts. You stand still, level your compass, and sight your bearing. You pick the most distinctive geographical feature that you can walk to along that bearing, then you walk to it. When you get there, repeat again from step one.

You fly an aircraft by a compass the same way. Pick a time when the turbulence has let up and use your rudders to fine tune a bearing. Look out front for something distinctive, then fly to it.



If chasing an airspeed needle is bad, chasing a compass is much worse...

[IBPilot]

These are the most useless rules taught in flight training.

If you are ever lost in the woods with somebody who has a compass, and they are looking at it while they are walking to find a way out, don't follow them. They are going to be lost far longer than you will be.

I learned how to use a compass back when I was in Scouts. You stand still, level your compass, and sight your bearing. You pick the most distinctive geographical feature that you can walk to along that bearing, then you walk to it. When you get there, repeat again from step one.

You fly an aircraft by a compass the same way. Pick a time when the turbulence has let up and use your rudders to fine tune a bearing. Look out front for something distinctive, then fly to it.



If chasing an airspeed needle is bad, chasing a compass is much worse...

You and my PPL Flight Instructor would have had to know eachother... I'm sure of it... LOL!! Exactly "dead on" response... they are formalities that are taught in the TC Ground Schools but in practice, don't have any value.

[Cat Driver]

Back to drift lines.....

Like I said already I have never ever drawn drift lines on any map..ever.

Does that make me an incompetent pilot?

[LousyFisherman]

I always had trouble with SHP! Isn't SHP the airport I just left? What new pilots really need to be taught about is the limits of accuracy and margin of error. About W&B in addition to navigating.

I have 3 magic marker lines on my plasticized Calgary VNC, Edmonton, Rocky Mountain House, and North Battleford. All require me to go through controlled air space.

I have no lines heading towards or in the mountains, those are already pre-drawn for me. However, I use a 1;250000 topo map in the mountains, gives me more information than the VNC. BPF, I disagree about a GPS. If you need a GPS in the mountains, you should not be there.

On the other hand, in northern Saskatchewan, Manitoba, the Territories or Northern Ontario I think a GPS is invaluable. I don't see how the original courier-des-bois ever found their way through.

The only nav equipment I have is a compass, DI and my eyes.

Cat I had to draw drift lines for my PPL tests, I have not drawn one since..... And I know I am a semi-incompetent pilot Do you think if I start drawing them I would raise my skill level to almost competent.

YMMV
LF