How many schools/instructors out there charge a fee for a student who cancels just prior to a flight without a valid reason? How much? Thanks.
Switchfoot.
No-shows
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Switchfoot
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Shiny Side Up
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Yup, ding their asses. Usually we give them the one freebie on that. Or at least if they call ahead. If there's just an outright no-show, no call no reason. Make them pay - an aircraft is sitting on the ground because of them, not only is it not generating revenue for you, but just became unusable for any of the other students.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
At the school I went to it was a $100 charge for a no show, or a last min cancel without a good reason. You could get out of the $100 charge by washing an airplane for the school. It was amazing how many students still no show multiple times and just paid up..... daddy and mommy's money many.
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Right Seat Captain
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I don't charge a no show if they call ahead, or if they're sick or something. Last thing I want is someone coming out sick because he didn't want to pay the no show, so that I can be the no show home sick and miss the next week of work.
If it's an outright no show, no call or anything, I'll usually give them a chance.
If it's an outright no show, no call or anything, I'll usually give them a chance.
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Right Seat Captain
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shitdisturber
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Had one renter who objected to being charged a no-show once. He'd missed eight consecutive bookings without calling; at least that's how many he missed after I started counting. For some strange reason I got tired of it and charged him for it. 
On the bright side he never came back.
On the bright side he never came back.
$40 for cancellation with less than 24 hours notice, no good reason. Saturday morning fever is NOT a good enough reason. First one is a freebie, three times and we no longer take bookings- feel free to come on out and see if an instructor is able to take you on. Instructor gets 1 hour pay from the no-show charged.
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
how many of your flight schools credit students when you have to cancel on them?
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say ZERO. As a student, i've had my aircraft taken from me at the last minute because someone else needed it dual. Now from a business perspective, yes you're making more money by getting rid of my rental and using that plane to charge out an instructor as well, but it's rediculous if you're willing to do that, then charge a student for not showing up.
I've had a flight cancelled as well because of a sick instructor (as i'm driving into the parking lot), and i completely agree that's a good reason for my flight to be cancelled, and i wont hold that against someone... right up until i get charged when i wake up sick one morning before a booked flight.
If someone just doesn't show up, and never calls then yes, charge them, but for no reason should any flight school charge a student when they're willing to call beforehand (with a good reason) unless you're willing to credit them when put in a position where you need to cancel on them.
I'm sure i'm gonna get flamed on this reply so lets see if i can save a few of you from responding:
1) "wadd you're crazy, we've lost revenue"
answer - that's a risk involved with any business, and unless all of your students are perfectly aware that you will charge them (ie a contract they signed when they started flying) you have no right to charge them legally.
2) "what will we do with that plane on the ground"
answer - the same thing you'll do with the plane beside that one... if you're a reasonably sized flight school then chances are you very VERY rarely have all your aircraft in the air at any given time so chances are that plane not being in the air didn't cause you to turn someone away from your busines for that hour.
3) "anything else"
answer - students are customers... customers are always correct. If you were going out to price suits/jackets for yourself... and you went to one store, tried on a bunch of $200 jackets, had someone on staff helping you (who gets paid commision, quite like a lot of instructors) and then you decide it's just not for you, or maybe you should wait until next week to buy that jacket, how would you feel if there was a $40 charge on your credit card for cancelling what that store thought was going to be a sale? Every single one of you would go crazy, and rightfully so.
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say ZERO. As a student, i've had my aircraft taken from me at the last minute because someone else needed it dual. Now from a business perspective, yes you're making more money by getting rid of my rental and using that plane to charge out an instructor as well, but it's rediculous if you're willing to do that, then charge a student for not showing up.
I've had a flight cancelled as well because of a sick instructor (as i'm driving into the parking lot), and i completely agree that's a good reason for my flight to be cancelled, and i wont hold that against someone... right up until i get charged when i wake up sick one morning before a booked flight.
If someone just doesn't show up, and never calls then yes, charge them, but for no reason should any flight school charge a student when they're willing to call beforehand (with a good reason) unless you're willing to credit them when put in a position where you need to cancel on them.
I'm sure i'm gonna get flamed on this reply so lets see if i can save a few of you from responding:
1) "wadd you're crazy, we've lost revenue"
answer - that's a risk involved with any business, and unless all of your students are perfectly aware that you will charge them (ie a contract they signed when they started flying) you have no right to charge them legally.
2) "what will we do with that plane on the ground"
answer - the same thing you'll do with the plane beside that one... if you're a reasonably sized flight school then chances are you very VERY rarely have all your aircraft in the air at any given time so chances are that plane not being in the air didn't cause you to turn someone away from your busines for that hour.
3) "anything else"
answer - students are customers... customers are always correct. If you were going out to price suits/jackets for yourself... and you went to one store, tried on a bunch of $200 jackets, had someone on staff helping you (who gets paid commision, quite like a lot of instructors) and then you decide it's just not for you, or maybe you should wait until next week to buy that jacket, how would you feel if there was a $40 charge on your credit card for cancelling what that store thought was going to be a sale? Every single one of you would go crazy, and rightfully so.
Punch it Chewy!
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Shiny Side Up
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First of all: This is aviation - THE CUSTOMER IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. If you don't like it , take the bus.
Now given that, you are right in some ways - if we have to cancel on the last minute on a customer,and lets face it shit happens (And I'll note here I've yet to charge a customer for damaging one of my aircraft that might cause said cancellation), we do the best to make sure their trip isn't wasted. If I'm feeling especially generous I might upgrade the aircraft they fly at no extra cost - the 152 is down? Take the 172. Not to mention there's always the simulator too You have to chunk down that five hours for your private sometime.
The big one that gets me is when customers fly off the handle when the weather goes for shit and you have to cancel their flight - Hey! I'd expect you to make the same decision if it was your airplane - If you're going to argue with me over it, Well, in the words of everyone's favorite little green philosopher: That is why you fail. Even still the above still applies - the sim never gets cancelled for weather. Or hey! if you don't want to do that why not try to get your PSTAR done today? Or maybe even try your hand at a practice exam while we're both trapped on the ground - You'd be suprised how many customers turn down some free one on one instructional time and just storm out the door because I can't control the weather. HEY! No matter how mad you get we're not practicing circuits in freezing rain, and no you can't go out to the practice area in hard IFR.
Here's the real attitude problem with this situation. Students/renters too often treat the flight school like its retail or something, like you're getting your flight training at Wal-mart or something. Put things in a different light - you're hiring a professional, someone who hopefully is good at his/her trade. When was the last time your plumber, doctor, dentist, roofer, electrician, etc. didn't charge you for their time? Think about it. And like most of those professions that you might hire, if you find a good one, if you treat them well it will reciprocate.
Now given that, you are right in some ways - if we have to cancel on the last minute on a customer,and lets face it shit happens (And I'll note here I've yet to charge a customer for damaging one of my aircraft that might cause said cancellation), we do the best to make sure their trip isn't wasted. If I'm feeling especially generous I might upgrade the aircraft they fly at no extra cost - the 152 is down? Take the 172. Not to mention there's always the simulator too You have to chunk down that five hours for your private sometime.
The big one that gets me is when customers fly off the handle when the weather goes for shit and you have to cancel their flight - Hey! I'd expect you to make the same decision if it was your airplane - If you're going to argue with me over it, Well, in the words of everyone's favorite little green philosopher: That is why you fail. Even still the above still applies - the sim never gets cancelled for weather. Or hey! if you don't want to do that why not try to get your PSTAR done today? Or maybe even try your hand at a practice exam while we're both trapped on the ground - You'd be suprised how many customers turn down some free one on one instructional time and just storm out the door because I can't control the weather. HEY! No matter how mad you get we're not practicing circuits in freezing rain, and no you can't go out to the practice area in hard IFR.
Here's the real attitude problem with this situation. Students/renters too often treat the flight school like its retail or something, like you're getting your flight training at Wal-mart or something. Put things in a different light - you're hiring a professional, someone who hopefully is good at his/her trade. When was the last time your plumber, doctor, dentist, roofer, electrician, etc. didn't charge you for their time? Think about it. And like most of those professions that you might hire, if you find a good one, if you treat them well it will reciprocate.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
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permateacher
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No Shows
Ya the no show factor drove me nuts. My school charged 50 bucks. Most of my no shows were because the student didn't think they had a booking. with the language barrier and all it can get pretty convient for students to pull this. Or just assume the lesson's CX'd if the WX's bad.
What I did toward the end (becuase the demand was good at my school) was give students regular appointments. Say 2:00 wednesday and thursay or whatever. Say that training was an educational activity from the start, the recreation stuff came after the licence, so basicly they had to show up at those time all the time, no exceptions other than an extremely good excuse. If you could fly you flew, if you couldn't fly then brief, and if you had nothing to breif then leave an assigment for completion. If you lay down the law like that at the start the student will think this is all part of it. Those type A's out there would be chomping at the bit treated tough. Even though this definately ain't ture they'll think that all the other's have wimpy instructors that don't care. This way no more no shows, and I got the bills paid in an expensive town. (most of the time)
Raf
What I did toward the end (becuase the demand was good at my school) was give students regular appointments. Say 2:00 wednesday and thursay or whatever. Say that training was an educational activity from the start, the recreation stuff came after the licence, so basicly they had to show up at those time all the time, no exceptions other than an extremely good excuse. If you could fly you flew, if you couldn't fly then brief, and if you had nothing to breif then leave an assigment for completion. If you lay down the law like that at the start the student will think this is all part of it. Those type A's out there would be chomping at the bit treated tough. Even though this definately ain't ture they'll think that all the other's have wimpy instructors that don't care. This way no more no shows, and I got the bills paid in an expensive town. (most of the time)
Raf
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shitdisturber
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Students = Insructor Jobs
Therefore you should settle down and let Teddy Crazypants whoop it up in the saloon and call in at 0900 from the bar rather then lose him to the rival flying school.
I'd let Ted get away with it 3 times before I charged a no show and even then I'd make it a non-monitary penalty.
Therefore you should settle down and let Teddy Crazypants whoop it up in the saloon and call in at 0900 from the bar rather then lose him to the rival flying school.
I'd let Ted get away with it 3 times before I charged a no show and even then I'd make it a non-monitary penalty.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
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http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
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wha happen
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permateacher
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no shows
Hazatude, I know what you mean about students being customers, they are for sure. They have to be treated with respect. At the same time I would argue that in learning to fly they are asking you to teach them a skill that could potentially kill themselves or passengers. I compare it to golf lessons... If you don't study much for the lesson or not take it too seriously it will never ever kill you. In flying the reverse is true. Therefore it is OK I think to ask for and expect a little disipline from the candidate. It is you that will have to sign them off and therefore you're responsibility they'll be on the straight and narrow with a pilot's licence; If not your legal responsibility then you moral one for sure.
If a student isn't responsible enogh to show up for a lesson, or not drink before the day of a planned flight... matbe they aren't gonna be the safest pilots? At least if you're tough on them and give them an attitude adjustment early on they'll respect you. More importantly make them tough on themselves. If you give them an inch they'l take a mile. Like any other social animal (including humans!) they'll be happier if they know their limits, and that their leader (emm... you) really is the boss. People are less likely to take life saving advice and instruction from someone who let's them get away with sh_t just so they'll stay at the school. It's wimpy I think anyway for instructors to let students get away with no shows, and make the school look bad. If the school has a tough but fair rep, it'll attract more and more of the right kind of people.
Just the rant of a burnt-out former CTA instructor I guess.
Good luck out there,
Raf
If a student isn't responsible enogh to show up for a lesson, or not drink before the day of a planned flight... matbe they aren't gonna be the safest pilots? At least if you're tough on them and give them an attitude adjustment early on they'll respect you. More importantly make them tough on themselves. If you give them an inch they'l take a mile. Like any other social animal (including humans!) they'll be happier if they know their limits, and that their leader (emm... you) really is the boss. People are less likely to take life saving advice and instruction from someone who let's them get away with sh_t just so they'll stay at the school. It's wimpy I think anyway for instructors to let students get away with no shows, and make the school look bad. If the school has a tough but fair rep, it'll attract more and more of the right kind of people.
Just the rant of a burnt-out former CTA instructor I guess.
Good luck out there,
Raf
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LoadFactor2
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I've charged about 10 hours of no-shows this year. Probably around 25 hours for last year. Students are usually pretty cool about it.
0.5 no-show first offence, 1.0 second, then usually 1.5 per offence after that. Some instructors will bill 2.0 per offence.
I bill it because I'm worth it.
0.5 no-show first offence, 1.0 second, then usually 1.5 per offence after that. Some instructors will bill 2.0 per offence.
I bill it because I'm worth it.
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wha happen
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wha happen
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Right Seat Captain
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Now that doesn't make sense.
