Air Georgian says it goes extra mile for safety.

[T.J.]

/www.simcoe.com/community/barrieinnisfil/article/658890

* Laurie Watt, STAFF
* |
* Apr 01, 2010 - 6:00 AM
* |
* Recommended 0

Airline says it goes extra mile for safety
ORO-MEDONTE - Georgian Air president Eric Edmondson is not worried by a recent television documentary that identified pilot fatigue as a possible factor in 28 deaths in a dozen plane crashes over the past decade.

He said Transportation Safety Board statistics, which showed pilot fatigue was involved in 12 crashes, six of them fatal, are something to be taken seriously, but at Georgian Air they are going further than government minimum standards.

In addition to industry regulations that allow 14-hour days, but call for rest breaks and two meals per shift, Edmondson said Georgian Air has a proactive policy encouraging pilots to decide whether they are well rested.

“We recognize you don’t always get the best night’s sleep. You could be in a hotel and have a noisy neighbour. There may be some family stress, like a sick, crying baby. The responsibility lies with the pilot to pick up the phone and say he can’t do the 14 hours,” he said.

“Our policy is proactive and reactive,” he said, noting pilots record their flights and how they felt and make suggestions on how to improve performance and training.

The documentary detailed stories of American pilots who couldn’t afford to live close to their base because of low salaries and the expensive housing.

That, however, is not the case in Canada, where pilots are paid three times as much as American ones, said Edmondson. He noted the company builds an hour each way commuting time into the 14-hour shift, and also requires those who live further away to travel a day before they go on duty.

“We have rules in place that say (pilots) have to be at their base 24 hours before their shift,” he said. They must have suitable accommodations, to ensure proper rest.

“It’s a company rule, not a regulation. It’s only logical.”

Established in 1990, the Transportation Safety Board of Canada examines systemic safety issues, but its regulations are only the starting point for Georgian Air, said Edmondson.

“The days are sometimes quite long compared to a normal person working, but pilots have a lot of recoup time and a lot of time off. Our pilots fly an average of 12 days per month,” he said.

Georgian Air, he added, has never had a fatigue-related incident. The only investigation involving the Air Canada partner that employs 150 pilots was an icing incident in January 2004.
lwatt@simcoe.com

[TAWS]

I don't even know where to start...I guess no comment...just brutal!

[Canoehead]

I'm curious. Do GGN crews really only work 12 days/mo? When I was there we only got 12 days off per month. Or was it 11? Also, what's with this 'hour built-in to the commute' nonsense? Is he serious?

Regardless, managers are typically out of touch with the realities of a line pilot's physical well-being during a typical pairing/week/month. I can say for certain that not a trip goes by where I'm not tired or hungry at some point. If Air Georgian (and every other 704/705 operator out there) was seriously being 'proactive', they would eliminate 14 hour duty days.

[Mig29]

As far as I know those numbers are REVERSED. 12 days off for Reserve pilots and 11 for block holders.
"...company builds an hour each way commuting time into the 14-hour shift..." Joking, right?

[HavaJava]

The documentary detailed stories of American pilots who couldn’t afford to live close to their base because of low salaries and the expensive housing.

That, however, is not the case in Canada, where pilots are paid three times as much as American ones, said Edmondson.

Wow...that means that American pilots are getting paid $9000 a year according to Edmondson...

that's considering that F/O's start $27,000 at georgian

[C-FABH]

Could just be the reported goofed the numbers up.... you never know!

[intel]

why not email back the guy that wrote this article and give him the pilots side of the story?

here is the email address to send it too

lwatt@simcoe.com

[Lester7]

why not email back the guy that wrote this article and give him the pilots side of the story?

here is the email address to send it too

lwatt@simcoe.com

I think this is a superb idea

[shortbus]

Who the hell is "Georgian Air", last time I checked they where called Air Georgian?

[Carrier]

Quote: "That, however, is not the case in Canada, where pilots are paid three times as much as American ones, said Edmondson."

Mr. Edmondson should kindly post on here the details of where these jobs are. There are many pilots in Canada, especially in the 703/704 sectors, who would like to be paid three times what their American counterparts get. Perhaps someone who works at Air Georgian would draw this to his attention so that he can comply with this request. I do not mind if he delegates it but let's see the facts to back up that statement!


Quote: "The only investigation involving the Air Canada partner that employs 150 pilots was..............."

Didn't Air Georgian also have a fatal C208 crash at Barrie a few years ago? Didn't Air Georgian also have a C208 crash at North Bay? Were these crashes not investigated? http://www.pprune.org/canada/115991-air ... crash.html

[mattedfred]

i don't believe that either of the C208 accident investigations involved AC

i believe this is why GGN separated the AC flying from the cargo flying

[av8tor_assrope]

mattedfred is correct.
starting pay is actually $26 900 not $27 000
11 days off a month...and trust me you only get 11 days off a month. sometimes only 9 or 10 when we're short and drafting.
hehe..i have to admit i chuckled when i read about that "commute to work built into 14 pairing" bullshit. trust me....live close to yyz. your car will be parked in the staff parking lot for 14 hrs or longer!!!!

otherwise...not too bad of a gig. hit it and quit it. get some good expierence and get out.

[Meatservo]

Isn't 12 days off per month pretty good? I'm not being sarcastic; I actually do think twelve days off every month is pretty sweet. How do you get these days off, perpetual three-day weekends, or groups of six days off every two weeks? Either way it sounds OK to me. Are they scheduled, or do you just happen to average twelve random days in a typical month? I wish I had that much time off.

[TAWS]

^ Eric is that you?

[imarai]

Controllers hate it when you "go the extra mile"...

[Inverted2]

Isn't 12 days off per month pretty good? I'm not being sarcastic; I actually do think twelve days off every month is pretty sweet. How do you get these days off, perpetual three-day weekends, or groups of six days off every two weeks? Either way it sounds OK to me. Are they scheduled, or do you just happen to average twelve random days in a typical month? I wish I had that much time off.

No! 12 days off is pretty bad actually, especially if you consider all the time you are away on the 18 or 19 days you do work.

[Meatservo]

No, my name is not Eric. It's not considered to be polite to ask people their names on AvCanada anyway but my name is not Eric. There's no reason to get angry, either. I have a different job than you, and I get two days a week off. I would like them to be Saturday and Sunday, which are also the only days off my wife gets, but sometimes I have to settle for some other days if I'm flying away from base. Sorry for asking. I don't know what life is like for people at outfits like Georgian, I don't do that kind of work, thank God, but twelve days off a month, to an outsider, doesn't sound that bad. Try to think of it from the point of view of a normal working person, without the benefit of knowing about other aspects of your job such as 14 hour duty days and nights away from home, he might think twelve days is pretty good. I suppose the reason I made the comment above is because I don't understand what you guys have to put up with down there.

[Mustard]

I'm guessing the commuting time built in he is talking about refers to the check in and check out times.

[Cirocu]

Either the facts where misconstrued on purpose; the fatigue issue is gaining public awareness and making changes to the CARs is building momentum, which is stirring employers to push back against; or the author working for the Barrie Advance is just a poor reporter.

[Inverted2]

I was always tired working at GGN. I got 11 days off and worked 18 or 19 days a month. Perhaps some of you current GGN pilots should write in to the newspaper and help the writer correct Erics mistakes. I believe the email was listed in a previous post.

Or, if Eric was telling the truth and you only work 12 days a month, I regret quitting and envy you!

[fixed pitch]

I wasn't going to say anything about this, but here goes Easy E again, spreading his bullshit.

It's too bad that at a time when pilots are pushing for better duty times and better pay, this moron makes such statements.

GGN guys get 11 days off a month, they work full 14 hour blocks, they earn 26,9 to start, they work overtime like everyone else these days, they're tired. Travel included in your block? Are you kidding me? Commuters told they must be in town the day before, huh really? No accidents, oh ok, I guess 2 fatal and 1 serious Caravan accidents while EE was at the helm as DFO doesn't mean much. It doesn't matter that they weren't AC 1900 flights, they were still GGN accidents and to say otherwise is a lie and shame to those unfortunate guys that were involved.

I worked at GGN for years, I'm embarrassed, though not surprised, to hear such garbage from the guy leading the way. I guess being at hockey practice 7 nights a week, putting in 3 hours a day has put him out of touch.

[Carrier]

Quote: "....they earn 26,9 to start...."

Really? They must start at CONSIDERABLY MORE than that according to Mr. Edmondson as they earn three times what their equivalent American pilots earn. Does anyone know of any Beech 1900 pilots in the USA who start at $8,966 pa? If not, then Edmondson is an unmitigated liar and is not a fit and proper person to hold any corporate directorship or office!

Edmondson's statement is typical of the quality of "management" that taints the Canadian aviation industry and abuses so many Canadians.

[Mig29]

Average block for most of the guys just under 100hrs...

[Moose47]

G'day Folks

Just to deviate a bit from this thread. It was on a day (November 25th, 1997) very similar to today that an Air Georgian C-208 Caravan 1 'Super Cargomaster' (C-FESA) had an accident here in North Bay. I watched it depart heading west to Sudbury. I stuck around the hangar and then watched it come back due to heavy icing. The Caravan hit pretty damed hard on landing. I thought it was going to nose over. If I recall rightly, the co-pilot recieved some serious inuries.



O.K. we can resume previous heading.

Cheers...Chris

[co-joe]

Wow, my last job we only got 12 days off every 2 months!