Beginner Aircraft suggestions

[nickorette]

I'm fairly new in all of this and I'll be looking to purchase a single prop within about a year's time.

Here's what I'm looking for:
-under $60k
-4+ seats
-newbie friendly
-low wing design
-retractable gear (preferred; not critical)

I plan on taking trips up to the 900nm range. Just for shooting around and visiting relatives that were always difficult to reach by vehicle.

Any suggestions towards what makes/models I should be looking at? I can find some stuff on my own, but I know nothing of "real world" experience with certain brands, makes, features, etc. "stay away from: "this", etc.

[kiloindiapapa]

Im no expert on low wings. If you want retractable and under $60,000......well when I was looking earlier last year I a friend suggested the Beech Bonanza V tail. I was told if you got a 56-60 I think the A and B modles they werer lighter and flew really well. They have the retractable gear and great short and soft field performance and good cruise.... Thats all about I know.

You prolly want something with good size tanks for the long trips. This is a hard one cause there are so many variables.....how much you want to spend on maintenance, what fuel burn are you happy with, how fast are you comfortable with, do you want IFR, ect. It would also depend on your experience and comfort level.

[nickorette]

Im no expert on low wings. If you want retractable and under $60,000......well when I was looking earlier last year I a friend suggested the Beech Bonanza V tail. I was told if you got a 56-60 I think the A and B modles they werer lighter and flew really well. They have the retractable gear and great short and soft field performance and good cruise.... Thats all about I know.

You prolly want something with good size tanks for the long trips. This is a hard one cause there are so many variables.....how much you want to spend on maintenance, what fuel burn are you happy with, how fast are you comfortable with, do you want IFR, ect. It would also depend on your experience and comfort level.

Yes good size tanks would be a major plus.

I'm ok with a fuel consumption under 16 GPH.

Speed: it'd be nice to have. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[polar one]

Here ae my thoughts. If you buy something with retractable gear, constant speed prop etc, it is not the initial cost that will be the issue. At that price you are getting an older machine which usually will be more worn...and when it comes time to put parts on it you are not buying parts for a $60k airplane...you are buying parts for a million dollar airplane.

If you ae doing this not as an end to a transportation issue, but as a use for flying your own plane, my advice is to start with something simple. Enjoy the trips. Build some time and find out what ownership is all about.
When the blush of ownership wears off, if you still have a use for the plane , rather than an excuse, move on up. With the US$ the way it is now, it is a great time to buy.

I didnt really understand the fuel tank thing.. Are you planning on trying to make 900 mile trips non stop?
That is many , bladder busting, passenger boring hours...

[2R]

You will need more money for a MOONEY.
You know you want one

[kevinsky18]

As a first plane stay away from constant speed and retractable gear. These aren't hard to fly but the maintenance is bruttal.

Buy a cherokee 140 or 180. It's low wing and long range tanks and will be a great time builder.

my 2cents.

[5x5]

Buy a cherokee 140 or 180. It's low wing and long range tanks and will be a great time builder.

Big +1 on the Cherokee. Do go for the 180 if you want to use the 4 seats (2 adults and 2 kids). The Cherokee is quite a popular plane with lots in use, good parts availability, wide experience in the AME community and a number of really good, helpful owner's groups.

Additionally, for a first time buyer and presumably relatively low-time pilot (sorry if that's off the mark) it's a very easy to fly, easy to own plane that maintains its value quite well.

As part of your preparation and research, it would be a good idea to join COPA and make use of their numerous guides and articles on their website that deal with buying and owning an airplane.

Good luck in your search and remember to buy with your brain, not your heart.

[JAHinYYC]

The April 2010 edition of Aviation Consumer magazine did a comparative analysis of budget retracts for under $60,000. The pros and cons of the major makes and types are discussed in great detail.

If you don't subscribe it is an outstanding publication that I look forward to receiving each month.

[Old Dog Flying]

Why not look at a Grumman Tiger? Faster than a Cherokee 180, fixed gear, fixed pitch prop, low wing, 4 seats with good useful load, and good range. It has a sliding canopy for ease of entry and exit, great handling chatacteristics and fairly low maintenance costs.

Although they are not being manufactured at this time, a new company is in the process of start-up and parts are no problem.

[Mostly Harmless]

+1 for the Tiger. It is a very fun airplane to fly.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7 ... n32323145/

[jakey]

For what it's worth I recommend the Cherokee.
But then, that's what I trained on so I could be biased...

[Nark]

While, all great suggestions.

My advice is to head to down to the airport, get a CFI and go for a hop in these aircraft. You may not find a Bonanza or Mooney at many flight schools, but research the registrations owner and give them a shout. I'm willing to bet they'd love to take you for a ride.

[lionheart27]

If this is your first plane your wanting alot for not much money
As explained older A/C more maintenance with more features you want however newer A/C will have these features you want at a higher initial cost.
The 2003+ Piper Arrow series has retractable gear, approx 900nm range and four place comparable to the Cessna 182Q+ series(non-retractable) which I think has more bang for the buck and probably less maintenance.
Better yet a 1978-80 Cessna 182RG has all what your looking for except low wing and will likely find one with mid-mid/high hours at that cost. If your willing to maybe do an annual/ifr check (recommended) /paint job after purchase you'd probably have a really good hassle free A/C.
Other issues to consider. Belly ups, hangered, eng run to max overhaul time all logs since new, etc.
1978-80 182RG specs
Speed @ 75% power and 8000 ft 154 KTAS
Horsepower at 2,400 RPM 235 HP
Engine Avco Lycoming O-540 J3C5D
normally aspirated, direct drive, air cooled, horizontally opposed, carburetor, six cylinder engine w/ 541 cu.in. disp.
Fuel Capacity (Usable) 88 US. GAL.
Range @ 75% power @ 8,000 ft. 900 NM
Endurance @ 75% power 6 hours
Fuel Burn @ 75% power 13.1 GPH
Useful Load 1,292 lbs
Payload (with full fuel) 764 lbs
Empty Weight 1,808 lbs
Maximum Take-Off Weight 3,100 lbs
Service Ceiling 18,000 FT
Seating 4

you can't beat that!!!!!!!

I don't think the Arrows came with a 900nm until recently so your left with the 2003+ model
Beechcraft has the Bonanza. This may be more to what you want but in that price range your looking at a late 60's to early 70's model in the V35 series at best (more likely older for 60k)
Plus the range and fuel tanks are significantly reduced.

[raven54]

What is a "belly up"? If it is referring to landing, all of my landings to date have been belly up.

[rigpiggy]

Before you even look at an airplane, talk to your insurance broker. tell him you'd like to buy a 4 seat aircraft, ask for relative rates fixed gear/retractable, CS/fixed pitch etc...... Ask him what would be a suitable aircraft. It will save you a ton of money in the long run.

[willing to fly]

+2 on the Cherokee. Bought one a few years ago. Good plane. Simple, roomy (for a light single), easy to fly and not much in the way of maintenance. Insurance was very reasonable but goes way up with retractable, constant speed etc.

[human garbage]

You will need more money for a MOONEY.
You know you want one

The man is on the money! I mean mooney with that advice.

It is about the only plane that meets your requirements. As a bonus the old 'A' and 'B' models are owner maintenance to save on costs of operation. Tried and true O-360, built like a tank, and the gear is as simple as it gets so no blown oleos (google Johnson bar lol). If I had the scratch you are talking about I would already own one. There is a guy on Controller selling a 'B' in Oregon for $35K (for more than a year) that would be mine...

Barring the above advice, I will echo other posters: You can never go wrong with a Cherokee...

[human garbage]

Why not look at a Grumman Tiger? Faster than a Cherokee 180, fixed gear, fixed pitch prop, low wing, 4 seats with good useful load, and good range. It has a sliding canopy for ease of entry and exit, great handling chatacteristics and fairly low maintenance costs.

Although they are not being manufactured at this time, a new company is in the process of start-up and parts are no problem.

I'm not surprised at the Grumman suggestion from you ODF... I always admired the one you had at ZBB. Beautiful machine even after the job the hail did on the leading edge paint. Still got her?

[Old Dog Flying]

I'm not surprised at the Grumman suggestion from you ODF... I always admired the one you had at ZBB. Beautiful machine even after the job the hail did on the leading edge paint. Still got her?[/quote]

I still have the wee Grumman but it is the AA1A Trainer...can't afford a Tiger. The Tiger is the best bang for the buck in all categories...fast, comfortable, and economical. I've flown a great many Cherokees...even operated Niss's old Cherokee 140 and yes they are easy to fly and simple on maintenance but I would still take the Tiger.

And that was a rain shower that I went through that stripped the Endura to bare metal.

Barney

[IronMan]

Join COPA...there is a ton of information and resources available. From insurance to aircraft for sale. You'll also find people like yourself who have gone through the exact same process you are doing and you can short-cut your search by using their lessons learned. Good luck! I would go with the Mooney, BTW, $60K buys more Mooney than Cessna.

For the guy that suggested the V tail Bonanza....there is a reason they are known as the "forked tail doctor killer"

[Hedley]

IMHO start with a 4-seat 4 cylinder fixed gear fixed pitch prop aircraft such as the C172 and Cherokee 140, which in addition to functioning well as trainers, can carry three people cross-country.

Fly it for a year or two, then sell it and move up to something with 6 cyl engine, constant speed prop, retractable gear, IFR G530 avionics, autopilot, etc.

Let me know if you ever find a good six seat turbocharged, pressurized aircraft certified for known icing with a 900nm IFR range with weather radar that can win in unlimited category aerobatic contests for $60k, ok? Everyone else would like a few of those, too.

[RFlyer]

I'm fairly new in all of this and I'll be looking to purchase a single prop within about a year's time.
I plan on taking trips up to the 900nm range. Just for shooting around and visiting relatives that were always difficult to reach by vehicle.

When I read this sentence I thought maybe you meant your relatives were somewhere there's a lot of mud; i.e. 4x4 country. If so, that wouldn't necessarily be a low-wing friendly kind of place. But I assume from all the posts you must have meant they were hard to reach just because they are so far away.

In that case, here's a thread started by IFlyForPie which seems to fit right in with this thread...

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=64117

Regards All,

RF

[iflyforpie]

Tough to beat the Cherokee. Dial up what horsepower you want (150, 160, 180, 235) and fly it 'till it drops.

Same with the 172 and 182, except you will appreciate the high wings and the two wide opening doors when loading people and baggage in on a rainy day, or waiting for takeoff on a sunny one.

Mooneys are cramped and abhorred by AMEs. Bonanzas have pricey parts. Commanches are maintenance hogs. Even the Cherokee was somewhat ruined when they put a power pack from a 1950s Chrysler convertible in to make the gear move.

$60K will get you a solid 30 year old fixed gear single, or a basket case 50 year old retractable...

[mr.jinks]

Sell two of your kids and buy a J3 with a C90 and no electrics. It'll be the most fun you can have with your clothes on