Ocean Crossing in a Single Engine Plane

[silverwings]

I have always wondered exactly what it takes to cross the ocean in a small single engine airplane. Im not planning on doing it, Just have always been curious how its done and cant seem to find much info about it.

Hopefully this will get a bit of discussion going, and allow people to learn a few new things. Just jump right in and add some random comments, stories, or facts in relation to this task that not allot of people know about.

Ill start by just listing what I know. Please forgive my lack of knowledge in this area and correct me or add at will!!

-Crossing need a HF radio installed. Most take a portable one? Do planes have them mounted in the instrument panel? Is there an external antenna that needs to be mounted?

-With a a single engine plane, pilots wear a survival suit. Anyone know how long you could expect to survive with the suit? without it? Is it a regulation that one must be worn?

-Fuel is accomplished by taking bladders. I have heard some planes can be certified to take off over weight for ferry purposes. Is this true? can all planes do that? Is there a list someplace that shows how much over a plane can be?

-Avgas is hard to find. Routes have to be strategically planned for this purpose.

I am also curious of the routes people choose to accomplish these flights. If anyone could share their routes, in any direction, I would appreciate it.

Im sure I will have many more questions come up, so I will add more later.

[Invertago]

Not really answering your question, but I submit to you one cool video of a mooney crossing the atlantic enjoy!

[Rowdy]

I've been involved in ferrying a couple of twotters across the pond. Going both ways now.

HF is a very good idea, especially if you're down low and out of the vhf range. I seem to remember it is mandatory for crossings below a certain alt. You will need an oceanic clearance and be able to make proper ICAO position reports. Our HFs were hard mounted and has a big jesus antenna.. There are portable units and trailing antennas that can be used as well.

We always went via Iqaluit, Sonderstromfjrod (greenland) and then to keflavik or rekyavik iceland.. then the hop over to northern scotland. Its a slow go in the twin at 160kts. However with the ferry system and some drums (plus o2) we had 12hrs range.

There are a bunch of approved ferry tank systems. I've seen both the rubber bladders and aluminum tanks in the cabin. Most ferry permits I've seen allow for a takeoff above gross weight. Up to 17,500 in the dhc6. There are a bunch of restrictions however.

The best bet is to get up as high as you can and be flexible enough to sit and wait for weather wherever you need to. $$$

As far as avgas.. I know it's avail in goose bay, iqaluit and iceland. Cant remember if theres any in SF.

there are varying opinions on the use of survival suits/life rafts. The water temps are always ridiculous and you wont last very long without a suit. But then, it can also be 3-4 hrs or much longer for help to get to you assuming you have radio contact and time to make a mayday with a position report. So.. die of exposure in 4 or 5 minutes.. or wait an agonizing couple of hours... hmm...

I chatted a bunch with some guys through YFB that were taking some cirrus singles across. Huge balls if you ask me. I'll stick to twins.

[Panama Jack]

I seem to remember reading, some years ago, that some ferry pilots prefer piston singles over piston twins crossing the Atlantic.

Why?

Well, the Single-Engine performance on certain piston twins meant that you would not reach the destination. Another arguement was that with an FAA waiver for a 25% overgross takeoff (ferry fuel tanks) on a ferry flight, it is doubtful if a light twin could maintain flight on one engine just after takeoff, or even for the first 3 or 4 hours. And having two engines meant you doubled your chance of an engine failure. Oh-kaaaay. Definately not for the weak of heart.

[TA/RA]

Great video thanks!!

[AuxBatOn]

Wear a poopy suit (immersion suit), bring an inflatable life raft and survival equipment tailored for water, realize that if you go down in the North Atlantic, it's over.

[l_reason]

This is a good read
http://www.cessna150-152.com/transatlantic.htm

[Hedley]

The wx through the northern route (greenland, iceland, scotland) can get pretty dodgy, in aircraft with short legs. Better choose the time of year pretty carefully and watch the wx.

If you can, load up with gas, stay south, and go straight for the Azores with a healthy reserve.

Most of my friends have flown singles across the Atlantic, but with a bit of luck, I never have, and never will.

Two good friends of mine flew an AN-2 to Canada from Poland via the northern route. Quite an adventure. Lots of wx.

A great buddy of mine - we fly central america airshows together - flew a Spad (douglas skyraider) from Europe to the USA via the northern route. He was actually limited by oil consumption, not fuel! He didn't have time to rig up a wobble pump for the engine oil. Again, lots of wx, but that didn't slow him down (VFR). There was an incredible low over Labrador when he arrived in Goose Bay.

[mcrit]

I have always wondered exactly what it takes to cross the ocean in a small single engine airplane.

Huge cojones, or a very small brain.

[Hedley]

Not sure that's really true. Lots of people fly at night, and in cloud single engine.

I regularly put a fuel tank in the front seat of a Pitts and fly across the gulf of mexico from key west to central america. No big deal. I like being over the water. Nothing to hit, and generally less wx. Main problem is the XM radio fades out around Belize.

I remember doing an airshow in central america, I arrived from over the water, and a top-ranked solo airshow performer - I won't mention his name - was delayed, after a harrowing trip through the weather over the land. I'm sure I had a much nicer trip down than he did.

I like flying over water.

[Beaver Driver]

I haven't read "Plane & Pilot" for years, but there used to be a regular column written by a long distance ferry pilot. Lots of stories about delivering singles and light twins all over the world.

The higher gross weight thing is when operating in the "Restricted" catagory. The restricted gross weight is about 25% higher than the standard gross weight.

I used to think it would be fun to cross the pond in a single...I don't think that anymore.

[mag check]

A good friend used to take the twin ottors across from Labrador to Azores direct, that's a long slow flight with a compass and an adf.
Another friend has been across multiple times in his mooney, never had any issues.

As long as the weather is good, I can't really see a problem, I think the longest leg is around 700nm, and that's no big deal.

There is a neat story of a guy that flew his 65hp taylorcraft across, toured the continent, and flew it back across. The plane was for sale last year, back in California.

[Aviatard]

Although it's a few years old, here is a pretty detailed writeup on what is required.

http://xpda.com/flyingtoeurope

[mcrit]

Not sure that's really true. Lots of people fly at night, and in cloud single engine.

True, but if you survive a night forced landing you can step out of the a/c with out fear of drowning or rapid death by hypothermia. Same goes for a forced landing IMC.

I regularly put a fuel tank in the front seat of a Pitts and fly across the gulf of mexico from key west to central america. No big deal. I like being over the water. Nothing to hit, and generally less wx. Main problem is the XM radio fades out around Belize.

I'll concede that flying over tropical waters would not be so scary. My comments were aimed more at the north Atlantic. I had a chance to do some cold water survival training when I was younger. They dunked us in water that was about 6C. The body shuts down pretty quick.

[Old Dog Flying]

I met Max Conrad on a couple occasions when he was ferrying light singles across the pond. Quite a guy! He was trying to fly a Luscombe to England in 1955-56 and was turned back at Torbay for lack of survival equipment and too many aircraft issues. I don't think that he ever wore a poopy suit. And the extra gas tank was also his seat with a cushion taped to it.

One night while working in Greenwood tower I heard him giving a position report to Yarmouth Radio...VFR to Shannon. Yarmouth was then heard talking to Moncton Enroute on the open party line known then as "service F". By the time Max got abeam Sydney, Moncton was threatening to have him shot down by Sabres out of Chatham if he did not file IFR. He conceeded to QM's request, filed IFR and continued on to Shannon. Talking to him years later he admitted that he never did follow his clearance but was at every altitude from the surface to 10,000' during the crossing.

He was flying an Apache on that trip. If you want more insight into the guy read his book "Into The Wind"

[Finn47]

Here´s a story about two Finnish girls who bought a Diamond DA40 in the States, hired a pilot who had previous experience and flew their aircraft across the pond to Helsinki last summer via the usual route, sort of proving that girls can do it, too:

http://n756ds.blogspot.com/

The aircraft is now based at helsinki-Malmi (EFHF).

[ybp]

The only involvement I have had with ocianic crossings if from the maintenenance side as I am not a pilot. I prepped a twotter for the crossing and help the ferry pilot get his stuff ready. His list was quit basic as he was a crusty old guy!!! (Hopefully he will not read this and remember me)!!

- Ferry bladders were in a suit case that he packed with him.
- A case of bottled water. The full ones were for drinking and the empty ones were for pissing in.
- A pack of cigaretts in his left shirt pocket and a pocket knife in his right.
- No survival suit was worn as he could tread water long enough to smoke his pack of cigarettes, then use the pocket knife to slit his throat.

......dunno, that is just what he told me!!!!!

[UHDT]

HF is not only a good idea but is required at any altitude on the ocean when out of VHF coverage, IFR or VFR. If going IFR you would have to be at FL250 or above and route via Greenland (Blue Spruce Route) without HF radio. VFR on the ocean of course does not require an oceanic clearance but is only available at FL055 and below.

[Luscombe]

I would also recommend very highly to take a dunker course like the ones taught at Survival Systems http://www.sstl.com/pages/training_programs.html . I know for me, it was enough to teach me that if I ever had to ditch in the North Atlantic, I'm fish food. It did however show me that IF you survive the impact, IF you get your poopy suit on and IF you get into the raft, you just MIGHT live. Without a course like that, I would have probably had a 0% chance of survival if I ever had to ditch.

[Moose47]

For any of you familiar with John Lovelace's TV series 'Wings Over Canada', there is a two-part episode about flying a Mooney from Bangor, Maine to Goose Bay, BW1 and then to Stavenger, Norway. Lots of good information on what to carry onboard. As an amateur radio operator, I found it interesting when they showed the HF radio mounted in the cockpit. They used a fishing reel to let out the antennae to the right length when talking to Gander.

Old Dog, when were you at ZX?

Cheers...Chris

[Hedley]

Without a course like that, I would have probably had a 0% chance of survival if I ever had to ditch

If I have an engine failure over water, there is no way I am sticking with the airplane - you're likely going to end upside down in the water, with your head probably banged from the impact. Nice.

If I have an engine failure over water, first goes the canopy, then me over the side - a parachute descent is much less risky, IMHO. Of course, you need to get rid of the parachute after you're in the water - it's going to get wet and heavy and start to sink, and you don't want to be underneath that when it does.

[Big Pistons Forever]

This is a good read
http://www.cessna150-152.com/transatlantic.htm

I think you would have to be completely, absolutely, totally, insane to fly a buck fifty across the Atlantic Ocean......

[Hedley]

I'd do it if you paid me enough

I'd load it way over max gross with gas (on a ferry permit) and fly the whole way in ground effect!

[lionheart27]

Its a real challenge for pilots to do this and is usually done in pairs as navigation/radio/ weather and so on can get busy. There are many stories of people going over, but usually through the Greenland Iceland Scotland route.
That route usually ends up being:
Iqaluit Nunavut on Baffin Island - Nuuk/ Sondre Stromfjord/ Nararsauq/ Kulusuk Greenland in any combination. Kulusuk is the last and only east coast airport on Greenland. You will fly at 13000-18000 ft depending at where the ice levels are and the ceiling/power of your plane if you go over the icecaps. Obviously oxygen and dry/immersion suits are needed here and a respect for weather conditions. AvGas can be in short supply and expensive. Visit Polar Pilots website http://polarpilots.ca/index.php/trip-reports-and-visit
Also having anti-ice or boots is a requirement.

Next its off to Reykjavik Iceland (Reykjavík domestic airport‎). There are(many) but two other airports on Iceland, one at the western tip (Keflavik International Airport) and eastern tip for reference (Hornafjörður Airport) Iceland is apparently expensive again. Times at which you arrive can be vital here. Ground crew,etc.

There are two choices here although one is not favorable:

One is to fly to the Vagar airport in the Faroe Islands first. Weather here is very unpredictable according to many

The other is flying direct to Wick Scotland or Londonderry Ireland. There are others but these seem to be the most used. Where are you going?

The aircraft used tend to be performance singles. C-182 or Mooney M20 type of performance but it has been done in less. Its best to have a range of around 1000 mi just in case you have to turn around or divert. Most legs can be 500 miles.

Other links:
http://www.youtube.com/user/hmabicht
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yvln2r71I&feature=fvw
http://www.copanational.org/CC-42.cfm

[Caracrane]

don't bother, cross on board a 12