New fuel for the Q400 rumours

[TAT]

Doesn't the Q400 violate the AC pilots scope agreement???

[mattedfred]

no

[yycflyguy]

Matted:

Not quite the clear cut "No". It is a grey area. Jazz is Scope limited to a ratio of 12:100 ASMs. With the current fleet, it is at 10:100 ratio. If the ratio is exceeded with the plans for fleet renewal there certainly is a Scope violation.

How bout this for a remedy. Q400s for Jazz and additional widebodies at mainline to keep that pesky ratio below 12:100? Win-win!

[PC12flyer]

Perfect! I like it, more for both camps is good news for all!

[mattedfred]

Matted:

Not quite the clear cut "No". It is a grey area. Jazz is Scope limited to a ratio of 12:100 ASMs. With the current fleet, it is at 10:100 ratio. If the ratio is exceeded with the plans for fleet renewal there certainly is a Scope violation.

How bout this for a remedy. Q400s for Jazz and additional widebodies at mainline to keep that pesky ratio below 12:100? Win-win!

the JAZ fleet replacement plan does not exceed the ratio. therefore there will not be a violation of the AC scope clause. neither will the addition of a 5th charter aircraft.

[yycflyguy]

You must have more insider info than I have to know that there wont be a reduction in mainline ASMs as well what the math will be when the Dash 8s give way to Q400s with more seats and greater range... there is only 2% to play with before it exceeds the the Scope ratio. I know, I know, grieve it later, right?

[mattedfred]

yes, perhaps grieving it later would be advisable. in the meantime you could concentrate on those that compete directly on your routes such as WJ and PD.

[yycflyguy]

How are the negots going for Jazz pilots?

[flyinhigh]

If we go on strike on the 12th of June than not good.

[rudder]

You must have more insider info than I have to know that there wont be a reduction in mainline ASMs as well what the math will be when the Dash 8s give way to Q400s with more seats and greater range... there is only 2% to play with before it exceeds the the Scope ratio. I know, I know, grieve it later, right?

The Q400's are replacing CRJ's not Dash 8's. Also, the increased widebody flying for summer 2010 will add a significant number of ASM's at mainline.

[yycflyguy]

You must have more insider info than I have to know that there wont be a reduction in mainline ASMs as well what the math will be when the Dash 8s give way to Q400s with more seats and greater range... there is only 2% to play with before it exceeds the the Scope ratio. I know, I know, grieve it later, right?

The Q400's are replacing CRJ's not Dash 8's. Also, the increased widebody flying for summer 2010 will add a significant number of ASM's at mainline.

True, but the new summer widebody routes are seasonal. What happens when winter rolls around and that flying is suspended? The certified seating capacity on the Q400 already exceeds the scope allowance regardless of how it is configured or what the ASM ratio works out to be.

[mattedfred]

you do realize that it is AC that tells us what aircraft to operate for our CPA work?

[airway]

The certified seating capacity on the Q400 already exceeds the scope allowance regardless of how it is configured or what the ASM ratio works out to be.

There is no scope, other than the ASM ratio, on turboprops at Jazz.

[whiteguy]

The certified seating capacity on the Q400 already exceeds the scope allowance regardless of how it is configured or what the ASM ratio works out to be.

Do they use the certified seating or what is actually on the aircraft? The 705 was built with 75 because of scope. No? The 900 is certified for 90ish seats.

[rudder]

True, but the new summer widebody routes are seasonal. What happens when winter rolls around and that flying is suspended? The certified seating capacity on the Q400 already exceeds the scope allowance regardless of how it is configured or what the ASM ratio works out to be.

On an annualised basis this is a non-issue. It is likely still a non-issue even when measured on a monthly basis. Under the terms of the renegotiated CPA Jazz is operating over 25,000 annual block hours below previous peak. The Q400 fleet substitutions will not have any meaningful effect. There was already lots of unused capacity available within the 12/100 ratio limitation.

As for the scope allowance reference, you are incorrect. Even if the MP language (1.09.02.01(b)) is still in effect (questionable), the Q400 is certified below 81 seats.