GO JAZZ GO

[TA/RA]

I think I might account for 50 or so of those views.

[northernpilot]

To all those that berated me....

I sincerely hope you get a better contract. I'd be happy to walk the line with you if necessary. I'd never work at Jazz though, if I have a choice. I'd get out of aviation if I was forced to work for that kind of money....and I know the money goes up. But damn, it's slow, and painful. Unless you want to move to T.O. Which I don't. And even then, it's still slow, just slightly less painful.

However, I wholeheartedly support the efforts of those who are trying to make things better.

And to "flyinhigh", you don't have to worry about me applying at Jazz...that'll never happen...reference the comment a couple lines above. And you know what, I have full right to complain about all you folks that are accepting low paying crap jobs because I never did it. And there are many others here that never did either. I'm definitely not unique in that aspect and I'm not trying to brag....people need to realise that there are alternatives. the excuse of "well tonnes of other folks are accepting these low pay rates, so I have no choice" just doesn't work. Get out there, research alternatives, and see if you can't make a decent living in this industry....even in the early years. So I would like to reiterate that change in the industry starts with you lower time folks.

I'm sorry folks, but it's hard to be proud of industry in which one of the supposed "top 5" jobs is one such as the current situation at ACJ. I sincerely hope it improves.

[moreccsplease]

Hi northernpilot, I'd just like to say that I think you're out to lunch. You're not seeing the bigger picture.

Jazz was formed from AirBC, AirNova, AirOntario, and Canadian Regional pre-9/11. An AirBC contract was agreed upon with the thought process that normal bargaining would occur at the expiry of it.

9/11 came along, and you know what happened to the industry there. The contract could not be renegotiated to make any improvements. No problem, hopefully normal bargaining will occur soon.

2004 came along now. Air Canada CCAA. Contract slashed, $60 million dollars per year removed from the pilot payroll to keep AC afloat.

6 years later, we're in 2010 with a profitable Jazz, and it's our time now. There are 1,519 pilots fighting for a career contract. Have no doubt, this contract will affect every single pilot in this entire country, you included.

I will repost the following from a previous thread for your reading:


---


Just to set the record straight, here's what I made in 2009 at Jazz as a First Officer:

2nd Year First Officer T4 (2009)

$46,900 including profit sharing, and a little bit of overtime (every couple of months a shift or two).

On top of that, I estimate I got around $6,500 in [tax-free] perdiems in 2009.

Throw in a yearly dress shoe allowance ($150), yearly uniform allowance ($300), medical that's paid, that pesky Transport medical fee paid, passport fee paid, monthly drycleaning allowance ($45), crew snacks and bottled water provided on the plane, 2 weeks paid vacation plus 10 stat days paid, 12 guaranteed off days per month (this is the worst case, on reserve -- blockholders can have many more days off), paid sick leave (call crew-scheduling and book off, no questions asked), travel privileges with Air Canada, a reciprocal jumpseat program that probably has over 40 airlines in it, ZED fares with airlines all over the world, excellent training that is second-to-none and all paid for from day one, having the world's largest pilot union behind your back in case something (knock on wood) goes wrong, and no bond...

...and on top of all that, a defined benefit pension.

I should also mention that you will never be forced to do something that is unsafe, nor will you be questioned on why you didn't do it. The equipment is maintained in excellent shape as well, but of course, this is an airline after all.

Is it great? Absolutely not! All of the F/Os and the Captains agree that the F/O pay is abysmal. But we're working under a bankruptcy contract (from when Air Canada wholly owned us) and chopped it to what it is today.

We are negotiating for a much better contract, and F/O pay is in the top three things that our ALPA negotiators are going for.

[HORUNNER]

YEAH !

[scopiton]

NORTHERN : I'd get out of aviation if I was forced to work for that kind of money....

if you think your salary is a "compensation" for working in this industry, nobody forces you to stay.

you talk like someone who never had to worry about bringing food on the table, or never had to take up this matter.
before belittling others for accepting lower contracts than yours, remember that luck and good opportunities aren't everyone's privilege in this world, neither yours, for as long as you'll be in this industry.
good luck with your financial career.

[chopsticks]

What is the current captain's pay scale at Jazz? I know it takes a while to get there. Either way, it's great news that Jazz is hiring.

[loopa]

And you know what, I have full right to complain about all you folks that are accepting low paying crap jobs because I never did it. And there are many others here that never did either.

While I understand where you come from, I just have a tough time digesting what you just said. Can you maybe show me, a low timer, where I can find work as a new class 4 instructor not working a low paying scale? You can't... I know this cause I've almost been on every door and knocked to see if they have a job...

Because all the "entry level" jobs that I have been involved in have not really offered a whole lot. The greatest place I found was 25/hr for 500 hours of flying / year.

While 25/hr is referred to as a "fantastic" salary for a class 4 instructor, it really only pans out to be 12.5k for that one year. I don't see a low timer working for Perimeter, CMA, and all those tier operators making anywhere above 13 to 15 an hour, and even when on flight line they don't make a whole lot.

My point? You said that you and your surroundings have absolutely "never" accepted low paying crap jobs. I am going to leave the "crap" section of the comment out because I will agree with you on that one. There simply are idiots accepting "ANY" job out there. But what I won't agree with you is that you are slamming "low paying" and "crap" together while there are some really good companies out there that offer low timers very bad pay.

I am all ears to hear what kind of "entry level" job you accepted that paid you nothing close to "low pay." And while on that note, how long it took you. I'm not building you up for a trolling case here, but I am just interested in your opinion.

I am waiting for your answer my friend ...

[Mihai]

I am waiting for that answer as well, northernpilot. We are quite a few actually. All those of us with 200h and looking for our first job.

[aviator2010]

HR has changed personal. No one is a shoe in, new interviews new sims new medicals. so get your resumes innow is when it begins

[flyinhigh]

And to "flyinhigh", you don't have to worry about me applying at Jazz...that'll never happen...reference the comment a couple lines above. And you know what, I have full right to complain about all you folks that are accepting low paying crap jobs because I never did it. And there are many others here that never did either. I'm definitely not unique in that aspect and I'm not trying to brag....people need to realise that there are alternatives. the excuse of "well tonnes of other folks are accepting these low pay rates, so I have no choice" just doesn't work. Get out there, research alternatives, and see if you can't make a decent living in this industry....even in the early years. So I would like to reiterate that change in the industry starts with you lower time folks.

Ohh little scooter.

You are right, I am one that had a low paying job. Once I demanded a raise a short time in and was rejected on it, I quit..2 days later, left flying for a year because of it.

Now to sit here and bitch about scab flying and for peanuts lets again look at the facts.

WE ARE IN NEGOTIATIONS for higher pay, WE ARE WORKING ON A CCAA CONTRACT that we had no control of.

Things will change, you are right it starts from the bottom as well form the TOP which to me is far more important.
We are the ones that have to educate the new comers about bonds, etc. and most importantly we have to stop stabbing each other in the back just to get a bigger bird for that illustrious 3 bucks and hour more.

Now to sit there and call 1518 pilots jackass's for accepting shitty pay, go back in the records and learn about Jazz and what happened to us from a date called 9/11. We had NO control. Now we do so just wait to see what happens.

cheers

[Doc]

Back on topic. I hope Jazz hires a stack of pilots! It's great news for the industry. I know quite a few drivers at Jazz, all great folks. A great kick start to many careers, for sure! Yes, they don't pay all that great for a couple of years, but you can at least hold your head high having not paid for the job.

[lilfssister]

Annnnnd...let's try to keep it on topic. If you would like to "scuffle", arrange via PM to meet by the bike racks or something, okay?

[Doc]

Loud and clear. Good point.

[4hrstovegas]

[Doc]

:

No need for open displays of affection...

[nathanflyguy]

Is there a chance that jazz will start hiring again like the way they did a few years ago? like i mean low time pilots with 250 hours

[scopiton]

Is there a chance that jazz will start hiring again like the way they did a few years ago? like i mean low time pilots with 250 hours

No, see below, it's retrieved from their career site...
and besides that, with the recent layoffs, many guy will have a much better and interesting experience.

Qualifications
* All applicants shall be licensed by Transport Canada to act as First Officers on 705 category aircraft.
* Hold a valid Transport Canada Class 1 Instrument Rating.
* Hold a valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
* Must be able to obtain an Airport Restricted Area Access Clearance (i.e. security pass).
* Hold a current passport or any additional visa documentation required to operate aircraft within and outside of Canada without restriction.
* Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
* Must have completed a High School diploma.
* Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
* Preference will be given to applicants who posses 1500 hours total time with an ATPL, and two crew multi-engine turbine experience.

[fingersmac]

Is there a chance that jazz will start hiring again like the way they did a few years ago? like i mean low time pilots with 250 hours

Those 250hr pilots came from a program called the Jazz Award (or something to that effect). They were hired, in very small numbers, from aviation college programs. They didn't hire 250hr pilots off the street that happened to fill out their online application.

[modi13]

Is there a chance that jazz will start hiring again like the way they did a few years ago? like i mean low time pilots with 250 hours

Those 250hr pilots came from a program called the Jazz Award (or something to that effect). They were hired, in very small numbers, from aviation college programs. They didn't hire 250hr pilots off the street that happened to fill out their online application.

I believe only 4 of them were accepted for ground school each year, and only from specific colleges. Of those 4, only 1 or 2 were actually given flying jobs. I also believe the program has been suspended, what with the lack of hiring and the huge number of qualified pilots with thousands of hours.

[nathanflyguy]

thanks for the responses

[Poppy]

Anyone get a call for an interview yet?

[whiteguy]

Anyone get a call for an interview yet?

From the posting on the Jazz website.................

"Please be advised that review of applications begins 10 days after position is posted and continues until the position is filled. Please note that only those selected for an interview will be contacted. Thank you."

[TA/RA]

The add was posted on thursday last week so 10 days is this coming monday.... fingers crossed!

[Maxpwr]

Anyone get a call for an interview yet?

Yes

[northernpilot]

I'll respond to a couple of the last posts, and then graciously bow out so that the topic can continue on as normal.

To Miha and Loopa:

My first job was 1999 making 36K as a twin cessna FO, 6 months later captain at 48K per annum, and never looked back.

Now, I realise that the industry is changing, and those jobs are very very hard to find. THose jobs are still out there. PM for details. I was from the beginning of my argument, merely expressing my dimsay at the state of the industry. That job that I had is still out there, though, and with a few hundred hours, you too can get into it. However, it's not the best road to the airlines, (not that the airlines are a big prize these days).

Me, sure, I was lucky to some degree...the whole "who ya know" thing. But to answer scopiton about bringing food the table...well, whatever...I do have to worry about that, but like all of us there were a few years where I had only me to think about.

I'm not saying Jazz is not a good job. I recognize that there are many great things about it. It just seems crazy that I was flying a Navajo in 2004 for 60K, plus very good per diems, and Jazz called me for an interview, at which time I did not know the salary structure. So, I did my research, learned the pay scales, and promptly called back to turn down the interview. But who can live in a major city in canada on that kind of salary. It's descipcable.

Anyways, I believe we've pissed off the people who actually want to read about Jazz in this thread, and for that i am sorry. I guess I just really wanted to stress that the industry really sees this trend, and all the people that accept these low paying (I won't say crap jobs, cause it's not a crap job, just crap pay) jobs.
GOod luck with the negotiations...maybe you'll make Jazz a place I will want to go...probably not, but my fingers are crossed.