English and French??

[duster@heart]

Looking for opinions from both ATC and pilots regarding situational awareness primarily in YUL and YOW when 50% of communications are in English and 50% are in French. I know as a pilot it is frustrating (speak only english) not knowing what everyone is doing. Nothing against anyone, but english is the international language for aviation and IMO i think it would help being able to understand what other aircraft have been instructed. It just seems silly that in busy airspace there would be multiple languages on the radio. Anyways, interested to know what other people think.

[Snagmaster E]

Make it easy first of all. Take away the English and French part and just ask, "Should there be more than one language spoken on the radio?"

The answer, in the interest of safety, is no. Why make it that much more confusing? When you're flying, situational awareness is supposed to be high priority. When you take away half of the picture, it makes things more difficult. Take away ATC (such as low level, the Quebec North Shore, etc) and you get a situation which is downright dangerous. I've flown on the QNS and have made position reports in one language, heard them in another almost immediately after, partially understood the report, and (sensing a conflict) had to ask if the other a/c spoke my language, which they did. Personally, I was pissed. Why give a report to conflicting traffic in a language that they may not speak? I have my ideas, but I digress...

One language, whatever it is, spoken on the radio.

P.S. Props to the Jazz folks for doing all of their uncontrolled calls bilingually ( Most of them anyway).

[2R]

The next dog i get i am going to train it to chase its tail
It will remind me of the "circulus in probando" ,which is called the hamster wheel on some sites or "OH No not this sh*& again on here

The entire purpose of communication should be short and clear.The adoption of standard international radio telephoney globally to help make air travel safer is lost on some who insist on prattling on in their own dying language to try and preserve its relevance . Garbage verbage like "ANY CONFLICTING" wastes to much radio time as well .
We should all compromise and learn German .Some of the best Opera's are in German.
German sounds very clear on the Radio.
Ciao

[jakey]

In France... I believe they speak English for ATC communications.
In Québec... you have the choice E/F.

Oh, and the premium for ATC who are required to be bilingual is $800 per year! Not worth it!

[cyeg66]

In controlled airspace, where there's direct atc-pilot communication, I say so what. The controller will speak to you when you need to know something. If you hear your callsign, then you listen. If not, then there's something being said to someone else that doesn't pertain to (affect) your flight. At this point, someone always brings up the same old drivel: "Yeah, but that time in CDG....sniff, sniff.....drivel, drivel...had the pilot known...blah blah blah. The controller in that situation was a bonehead. 100% his fault from the sounds of things. That said, even in the land of "milkin' honey", the good ol' US of A, there are how many close calls in situations similar to the aforementioned one per annum and the only language spoken there is (afaik cajun isn't used ) a common one most people know in the western hemisphere? Errors will always occur, since it is virtually impossible to eliminate those from the definition of 'human nature'. Wait until computers run (rule?) the skies, then it'll be a slick operation . Capacity will increase 10 fold . There are other deadly situations (Avianca @ JFK, KLM/Pan Am @ Tenerife Norte) where the universal language did fack all to save the day. Frankly, had some of those pilots been spoken to in their native tongue, lives would have been saved. My 2 cents....

As for other planes on an MF or unicom freq making reports only in one language (other than english) even though they're likely aware of an anglophone in the circuit. 2 things: Specific to here in Canada, the animosity (perhaps a little harsh a term..?) is well documented and steeped in history. Secondly, some of those 'frenchies' in the circuit are fully entitled to exercise the privileges of their pilots licence in their home province in their native, and possibly only (esp. the further away from YUL you get), language. For the time being, be safe, keep looking out the window, and think about spending $20 on a CD-Rom learning another language if it irks you that much.

[mabcan]

In France... I believe they speak English for ATC communications.
In Québec... you have the choice E/F.

Oh, and the premium for ATC who are required to be bilingual is $800 per year! Not worth it!

In France, communications are made in French. English is only used by ATC with foreign aircrafts or when the pilot initiate the communication in English.

[invertedattitude]

As an Air Traffic Controller and a recreational pilot, having two languages is dangerous. Having one can only be safer.

And I'm sorry cyeg when I'm flying I want to hear the other pilots in a busy control zone, when I'm flying it's my ass that's on the line when some trainee pilot flies into the side of me. Every pilot having a clear picture of what's happening adds a layer of safety in the event ATC screws up, which they(we) do on occasion.

It's little consolation to the dead when planes collide due to an ATC mess up, that it was the controllers fault, but likely would have been avoided if everyone spoke one language...

[Jonathan]

I'm bilingual and flying near Montréal at an uncontrolled airport with no ground station.

I don't really want to pronounce myself on the use of 2 languages when under ATC control. However for uncontrolled airports without ground station I really think some rules should exist. When I fly I usually adapt my language depending on traffic, from what I hear anyway. But here is an example that happened a few weeks ago while I was doing circuits on runway 10.

Pilot A is english only. Pilot B is bilingual.
Pilot A calls on final for runway 10 - full stop.
Shortly after, when i'm downwind, Pilot B gets on frequency and broadcasts in french that he will start to backtrack runway 10 for departure if there is no other traffic then me. Pilot A does not understand.
Even though it's not my job I advise Pilot B about Pilot A, but Pilot B is already backtracking. Pilot B expedites his backtrack and Pilot A lands on top of Pilot B.

It was pilot B responsability to make sure runway would be available for his departure, but the point of having a frequency is to help avoiding these kinds of situations.

Are we going to force everyone to use english like in the old times?

[cyeg66]

No need to be sorry inverted, we're all friends here ...However,
one could be lead to believe that there's been a large increase in collisions due to multiple language issues based on opinions here (though I'm sure you guys around YQM and YFC sure have an appreciation for comm issues around there in recent years no doubt...) I think it's undeniable that most midairs happen because of one of two pilots not being on the appropriate frequency at the time of welding, be it their error in uncontrolled airspace, or because of ATC forgetting to (or sleeping at the...) switch the plane to next sector freq prior to falling out of range. I don't doubt that it's a 'comfort' thing from unilingual folks' perspective but if I (for instance) speak fluently with virtually no accent in either frch or eng, then I'd sooner speak to the pilot in his mother tongue for the sake of clarity and his comfort. Naturally, I'm talking about controlled airspace, here. If the dude exhibits a little (or more) difficulty in english, for example, when his a/c is in an emergency situation (it could happen, and it does), the fact he's under duress certainly doesn't make things any easier for him. I'm out West now so I don't get my laughable $800 anymore but there are still times when I wish I could answer in French to some of my airborne 'clients' to save them from their less-than-proficient use of the english language. Oh well, how I feel about the issue isn't gonna change the game. I'm resigned to that. My 4 cents now, I suppose.

[Old Dog Flying]

Flying in the exreme SW corner of BC is really no fun as the language used the most is Chinglish. And it won't be long before it is the dominant language in all of Canada...except for that little province that keeps getting Foreign Aid by the bucket full.

Now back to sleep...I've been hearing the same argument for nearly 60 years.

[cyeg66]

Flying in the exreme SW corner of BC is really no fun as the language used the most is Chinglish. And it won't be long before it is the dominant language in all of Canada...except for that little province that keeps getting Foreign Aid by the bucket full.

Now back to sleep...I've been hearing the same argument for nearly 60 years.

SW corner of BC, meet traffic pattern at YQM/YFC.... And since when is it 'foreign aid'? Is Alberta all that foreign...? (A lot of people would actually say so... ) And I don't think "it" travels in buckets. They were deemed too small. Now it's exclusively in duffel bags made by textile companies in the Saguenay region....

[jakey]

In France... I believe they speak English for ATC communications.
In Québec... you have the choice E/F.

Oh, and the premium for ATC who are required to be bilingual is $800 per year! Not worth it!

In France, communications are made in French. English is only used by ATC with foreign aircrafts or when the pilot initiate the communication in English.

Fair enough, my mistake.

[mabcan]

In France... I believe they speak English for ATC communications.
In Québec... you have the choice E/F.
Oh, and the premium for ATC who are required to be bilingual is $800 per year! Not worth it!

In France, communications are made in French. English is only used by ATC with foreign aircrafts or when the pilot initiate the communication in English.

Fair enough, my mistake.

No problem. If I am not mistaken, Germany uses only English for communications.
But France, Québec, or any other places where two languages are allowed to contact ATC, that's not the best for safety...

[invertedattitude]

I'll say this, the tower controllers at YQM and YFC are NOT paid enough! It is a loosely organized zoo on most good days... Thankfully I'm a high enroute controller so I don't gotta work em, just fly around them!

[tons-o-fun]

We should all compromise and learn German .Some of the best Opera's are in German.
German sounds very clear on the Radio

They lost the damn war! Suck it up...Speak english

A Pan Am 727 flight engineer waiting for start clearance in Munich overheard the following:

Lufthansa (in German): Ground, what is our start clearance time?"

Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak English."

Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"

Unknown voice (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war!"

[CD]

Lots of discussion on the issue earlier in this thread:

AvCanada: French vs English