international OC

[LOW BURNER]

Bit of a weird question. How do Canadian companies operate in other countries under a canadian OC? Do they have to have a Base in Canada and an "outpost" in other countries or can they just be Canadian Registered Aircraft and Canadian licenced pilots headquartered in any location? Are there any Restrictions for which countries permit these Operations? Any info is appreciated.

[Panama Jack]

I don't have first hand experience nor the answer to all of your questions, however, you can bet that Canadian carriers like any other carriers wanting to set up a base in another country face restrictions. This depends on bilateral conventions; some carriers have operated foreign hubs (ie. Iberia in Miami and Continental and Northwest in Tokyo).

A lot of the other jobs Canadian operators seem to be doing elsewhere seem to be either aerial work, United Nations work, contracts for foreign governments or wet leases. In any case, it only goes on with the blessings of the host country.

[Expat]

I don't have first hand experience nor the answer to all of your questions, however, you can bet that Canadian carriers like any other carriers wanting to set up a base in another country face restrictions. This depends on bilateral conventions; some carriers have operated foreign hubs (ie. Iberia in Miami and Continental and Northwest in Tokyo).

A lot of the other jobs Canadian operators seem to be doing elsewhere seem to be either aerial work, United Nations work, contracts for foreign governments or wet leases. In any case, it only goes on with the blessings of the host country.

I guess that with the UN, they use their canadian OC. In the Dash-8, the flight annoucements are in french and english. In Af...
Same with South Africans, Russians, etc...

[Panama Jack]

Don't get me wound up on that one expat. The Transport Canada requirement for bilingual safety briefings with the insistance that they are imperitive for safety is just plain stupid.

Sure, it enhances safety when safety briefings are done in a language understood by all passengers. However, given the diverse background of passengers these days, you would need to put on a two-hour long movie to cover all the languages for pax on a flight from say, Hong Kong to Vancouver or London to Toronto.

Alone on a flight to say, India, how many languages do you make announcements in? According to a 1961 census, it identified 415 living languages in the country alone! And then there are 6 language families in the People's Republic of China.

On our flights to Pakistan or Bangladesh we rarely have a crewmember who can speak Urdu or Bengali. And I remember one of my first flights to India, which happened to be with an Indian captain. After he finished his English PA I looked at him and remarked that I was surprised that he did not repeat the PA in his language. He responded that there was no guarantee than any of the passengers would even understand-- in this region of India they speak something else!

[Expat]

But overall, 3 languages are the norm. English, the departure language, and the arrival language. Flying Aeroflot Paris-Moscow was fun, because I could understand all three!

[Panama Jack]

I agree with that point. Greater of an incentive is the economic advantage. The majority of the passengers being served in their language (and the delight that it brings).

So can somebody please explain to me, one more time, why on a flight provided by a Canadian air carrier from Beijing to Vancouver the safety briefings must be provided in English and French?

[Expat]

I agree with that point. Greater of an incentive is the economic advantage. The majority of the passengers being served in their language (and the delight that it brings).

So can somebody please explain to me, one more time, why on a flight provided by a Canadian air carrier from Beijing to Vancouver the safety briefings must be provided in English and French?

I guess French is easier than Mandarin...
"Made in China, Fabrique en Chine." Wallmart sign...

[CD]

Explain it? Nope, not by a long shot. The influence wielded by the Commissioner of Official Languages can be quite far reaching and impacts in aviation in part through the bilingual briefing requirement. Just look at this AC on the issue and what they want Transport and the operators to do:

AC 705-001 - Bilingual Briefings at Window Emergency Exits

Presently, the regulation permits the exit briefing to be conducted in any language but OCOL wants that briefing in either English or French. So, route languages just aren't all that important to the official languages folks I suppose.

[Panama Jack]

Yup, purely political.

It is not often that I and the US Republicans agree on stuff, but here is one example of the disadvantages of Big Government dictating silly things.

[CD]

LOW BURNER...

There is some information available in the Air Operator Certification Manual that I think relates in part to your question:

6.5 Canadian Companies Planning to Operate or Are Moving Their Commercial Air Services Wholly Outside of Canada

Policy Statement

1. TC does not normally consider it to be in the public interest:

a. to issue an AOC to a Canadian company who plans to operate a commercial air service wholly outside Canada; or
b. where Canadian air operators move their commercial air service wholly outside Canada.

2. Regarding paragraph(b), TC will normally suspend and cancel the Canadian AOC pursuant to subsection6.71 (1) of the Aeronautics Act.

Purpose

3. TC has the responsibility to ensure the safety of Canadian air operator operations through regulatory compliance wherever they occur, nationally or internationally. TC also strives to assist Canadian air operators to compete in the global aviation market.

4. With an operation wholly outside Canada, the Canadian air operator would have no domestic operation in Canada to assist TC in the evaluation of regulatory compliance. Even with cost recovery for travel expenses, salaries and overtime hours, there would be significant resource requirements in order to have TC inspectors fulfil TC's regulatory responsibilities outside Canada.

5. However, to prevent undue hardship, TC is prepared to consider such operations with a Canadian AOC if the air operator is prepared to accept responsibility for all costs, including salaries and overhead, that are required to be expended by TC to properly certify, inspect and monitor the safety of the air operator's operation.

Procedures

6. If an application is received from a Canadian air operator that does not have a domestic operation and is planning to operate wholly outside Canada, the operation is to be denied, pursuant to subsection6.71(1) of the Aeronautics Act, as not being in the public interest.

7. When TC determines that a Canadian air operator is operating its commercial air service wholly outside of Canada, or that it intends to do so, its AOC shall be suspended or cancelled pursuant to paragraph7.1(1)(b) of the Aeronautics Act, unless the air operator concerned satisfies TC that it is in the public interest that it be allowed to maintain its Canadian AOC and that the air operator is prepared to defray any additional costs incurred by TC in ensuring compliance by that air operator with applicable regulatory requirements.

8. When the AOC of a Canadian air operator is cancelled or suspended, TC will advise the Civil Aviation Authority of the country where the Canadian air operator operates, that the air operator no longer holds a subsisting Canadian AOC.

9. It is essential to inform all other regional divisions, such as AM&M, Licensing, etc., of the action being taken to ensure that no unnecessary resources are expended.

10. When an air operator invokes economic or commercial arguments to support an exception to this policy on public interest grounds, the Air Policy and Programs Directorate of Policy and Coordination (ACE) should also be consulted through the Certification Standards Division (AARXC).

TP 4711 - Section 6.5

[LOW BURNER]

Thanks for the answers CD. Exactly what I needed to know.