Another Quebec-based Beaver suffers a fatal crash July 24

[armchair]

Bad news, another Beaver crashed today in Quebec, taking off from La Grande Rivière, see tip from Les Ailes Quebecoises forum http://www.ailesquebecoises.com/viewtopic.php?t=9020

It states it was an amphib and the canoe that was strapped to the a/c came unattached on take-off, disabling some flight controls. Number of fatalities unconfirmed. I dont recall such a canoe coming off in flight, but this will surely get TC up and about now. Again, sincere condolences to the families affected by this new tragedy.

[armchair]

French medias are finally starting to pick it up:

http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/so ... ames.shtml

and

http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archiv ... 84422.html

[RatherBeFlying]

There is comment on Ailes Quebequoises that the canoe remained attached but that the a/c did not climb enough.

[dji]

I saw the plane take-off all the way til the end (almost, it dissapeared behind the trees so I missed the actual impact), I really don't know where the canoe detaching itself come from but I can't say I saw something close to that. did not see debris in the runway either.. and heard wild rumors, so let's wait a bit and wish for quick recovery for the survivors

[armchair]

The canoe thing came from that initial report from the "Les Ailes" forum, which actually proves that it is never a good idea to introduce theories so early, even though it sounded credible given the source.

[Jonathan]

Oh no, not again

[snoopy]

Any details and/or articles in English? Weather? Temperature? #pax on board? a/c reg? turbine or radial? Size/configuration of operating area? CADORS? It would be interesting to know how much weight was on board - wouldn't be the first time a pilot was bit by carrying too much weight with an external load on a hot day - hope this wasn't the case.

As a side note, it really irks me that the major news sites and CADORS writers/editors do not offer up an option to view all pages/material in either of BOTH official languages.

I'm sorry to hear of yet another accident this year.

Kirsten B.

[tedcuthbert]

I believe it was C-FGYK, a mk1 beaver on whip amphibs. Now add the weight of 5 people, a canoe, gear, and fuel...........

[robbreid]

Company fleet;

C-FGYK DHC-2 MK. 1
C-FKLC DHC-3
C-FSVP DHC-3
C-GDDX PA-31

Nordair Quebec 2000 Inc. website

Photos C-FGYK DHC-2

http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archiv ... 84422.html Google translation below;

RADISSON - Two of the five occupants of the aircraft, including the pilot, died following the crash of the aircraft, around 11 pm Saturday near the Radisson Grand River, in the Bay Area James.

The crash occurred at a little under two kilometers west of the airport Radisson Grande River. The aircraft type Beaver DHC-2, which belonged to the company Nordair, crashed in a swamp shortly after takeoff. The pilot, Glen Arseneault, a resident of Radisson, and another occupant died. The three other passengers with serious injuries, were transported at night by air ambulance, to hospital in the Montreal area.

A distress signal was issued before the accident. According to Simon Fortin, an employee of the airport, the four passengers were American tourists who were going to the Lake Eau Claire, Nunavik, for a fishing trip.

We do not know the cause of the accident, but two hypotheses have been advanced by witnesses. According to some, the engine of the aircraft would make an unusual noise at takeoff. It also raises the possibility that a boat which was attached by straps to float the unit, will be detached and strike the tail of the aircraft.

Jonathan Perrier, an employee of Air Inuit, went with a colleague to the scene after seeing emergency vehicles on the runway of the airport. Reaching the end of the runway, he had to move in nearly a meter of water in a swamp in the muddy bottom. "The plane is a total loss, even the engine was out, he recounted in a telephone interview. I heard screaming, I saw movement, I continued my race and I tried what I could to rescue survivors. "The most difficult moment, he admits, it when he discovered the pilot Glen Arseneault, he had known for ten years.

Despite the nervousness and lack of equipment until the rescue teams, he has managed to avoid drowning the survivors. "I held their heads so they do not fall under water," he said. They could not sustain themselves. "

Numb with cold water, man has also had to be evacuated by helicopter after the arrival of aid.

Six investigators from the Quebec Provincial Police were dispatched to the scene, and officials of the Bureau of Transportation Safety.

[Hornblower]

I believe it was C-FGYK, a mk1 beaver on whip amphibs. Now add the weight of 5 people, a canoe, gear, and fuel...........

This aircraft is listed as having a 3778 lb empty weight, and the 5600 lb gross weight, so it was do-able. That being said, most other Beavers with those floats weigh in around 4000 - 4200 lbs, and not having any experience with a 5600 lb Beaver (legal anyways), I do not know how much of that gross increase can be carried in the cabin/cargo area.

[flyinthebug]

I just saw this crash on CTV this morning. WTF is going on with DHC2`s??
I knew Glen and worked with him over 11 yrs ago. This is a tragic way to track down an ol friend. My most sincere condolences to all the family and friends involved. I wish the survivors a speedy recovery!
When is TC gonna ground Canada`s DHC2 fleet and have a look? The amount of DHC2s crashing since 2008 are staggering..and FAR above the "expected" curve. They are taking some very good and experienced pilots lives. There has to be more to it then just a string of bad luck. I hope the TSB steps up and does the right things here and now.

Fly safe all.

[Bushav8er]

I believe it was C-FGYK, a mk1 beaver on whip amphibs. Now add the weight of 5 people, a canoe, gear, and fuel...........

+1
Doable? Amphibs, hot day? Fuel and gear. And don't forget that 1/2 the external load weight has to be deducted from the gross to produce a new 'legal' gross limit.

Fly safe people, to many accidents that appear to be preventable; flying is great but not at the cost of lives.

[Caracrane]

Lac à l'eau claire is located 200 nm north of YGL.

[supercub7]

delete

[GUMPS]

Pretty sure this is not the same one posted above..but another crash in Alaska on Friday?

http://www.adn.com/2010/07/23/1378927/c ... plane.html

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/blogs/bus ... d-in-crash

[Shotgun Chuck McCoy]

My condolences to the family and friends of the victims of this latest Beaver crash. I too see the floatplane accidents over the last couple years as alarming and just wanted to remind all of us out there doing this job (without it in any way being construed as critisism towards Mr. Arsenault or any other pilots of the other recently crashed aircraft ) to BE CAREFUL and remember to consider the consequences of what it is you are about to do should something go wrong - even if you are about to depart legally loaded, the other factors in play can make the departure a very risky undertaking in certain situations.

Expressing again my sympathy for all those affected by this latest tragedy.

SCM

[xsbank]

So Luckyboy, not ok for Kirsten to complain about the French thing but it's ok for you to trash TC in the same thread?

Enough, already! No more deaths! Still think it's a safe way to earn a living? Think dying should be in your job description? Generous of you to throw your 'all' into your job, including your life! All you "Heroes of The North" give your heads a shake, take another look at your operation and re-evaluate whether you are cutting corners and just "getting 'er done." You are responsible for people's lives!!!

Condolences to all those left behind. Another pointless tragedy.

[Widow]

It is with great sorrow I extend my condolences to yet more families and loved ones ... there are far too many of us these last few years.

Stay safe.

Kirsten S.
AKA "dhc2widow"

[snoopy]

Thank you to all those with information to contribute - and the translations. On the surface it would appear to be a rather large load to be carrying with an external - usually one would subtract 3x (1x for the actual load weight, plus the additional 2x to compensate for performance) the weight of the external from max gross to compensate for aerodynamic detriment. More for hot day/adverse wind/aft c of g.

Whatever the actual cause of the tragedy, I am sad to hear of it and the loss of more lives.

My request for bilingual information was by no stretch a tirade - it is a reasonable one. Choice of language should be extended to those who have French as their first language as well. I am sure they are equally frustrated when accident details are unavailable in English, and share the same concern for fallen comrades.

For the record and as an aside, there is nothing wrong with the DHC-2, or any other "old" aircraft when inspected, cared for and operated properly and within the manufacturers' and safe operating parameters. If operators do not maintain their aircraft, pilots operate them outside safe limits, and mechanics don't inspect and fix them (not saying any of this is the case here); age of the aircraft is immaterial.

A paper-generating system (SMS) will not stop the accidents. A more responsible industry attitude and better operating practices will. As stated above, this starts with you/me/us.

RIP

Kirsten B.

[MUSKEG]

I will not speculate on cause because I to have had an engine failure and the cause was never pinpointed. Yes it was investigated and speculated about by TC who did an incredible job of eliminating what they could. Somethings we will never know, however I do know that 60 year old airplanes generate the same revenue as a brand new airplane and cost a fraction of the price. I don't know anyone who wouldn't go the route that makes the most for the investment. Maybe it's time people who charter these A/C get a 1 % reduction off in cost for every year of age of aircraft. ie 1960 beaver you get the charter for 50 % off. Some owners make a go of it with relatively new a/c, think of what owners who have much less invested are making. If I hijacked the thread sorry. Many accidents involve an uncontrolled failure of some sort. Flying clapped out old airplanes is not uncontrollable. You need to control what you can.

[The Mole]

Cut-------Paste. It must be hard working at TSB, seeing the same fatal mistakes year after year and TC not doing its regulatory job. Although having an STC for the external load would not have changed the out come of this accident...

[Sidebar]

... having an STC for the external load would not have changed the out come of this accident...

Perhaps not. But there were several other factors here:
1. Aircraft overloaded.
2. C of G beyond aft limit.
3. Baggage not secured.

How many people reading this did one or more of these things today? If you did, ask yourself "When it will it catch up to me?"

Will you survive? Will your wife/husband/children/parents/friends wonder why you accepted unsafe practices? Maybe you'll also kill your wife/husband/children/parents/friends? Think your boss will accept any responsibility?

[The Mole]

4. Canoe larger than dimensions specified companies non approved LSTC, but approved in Ops manual specifications.

[Cat Driver]

Interesting reading.

This report should be manditory reading for every pilot.

Until SMS is mandated for small charter companies....

..... SMS is the real answer to safety........

[Big Pistons Forever]

A very sad and sobering report on accident that was so preventable.......