Rape by deception

[bmc]

Rape by definition is non-consensual sex, and she obviously gave her consent at the time. This seems to be a case where the girl regrets what she did and has decided to punish the guy for her mistakes. Regret should never allowed as the only incriminating evidence in a rape case, ever.

BUT

It was consensual because she was under the impression that he was of the same faith as she. If he was not of the same faith she would not have given him the time of day. He had a motive. Sleep with her.

He devised a method to sleep with her. A method that he knew (especially in the country he resides in) was not right. But he acted on it and he is now is paying the price.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... ion-charge

Without getting racist about it, and I know that'll be a HUGE challenge, is he guilty or not?

[moocow]

I don't know if the definition of fraud would cover this. While obviously she suffer personal injury (physical and mental anguish), does physical gratification classified as person gain which justified a criminal case? I doubt that but I'm sure if she have the cash and time can drag him to court.

[Barkaie]

lets leave the religion out of it for one second.. what if the guy told her he was rich.. and she slept with him, or is a doctor or whatever.. lied and she slept with him, would it be a different light? what he did was wrong yes.. rape? I don't think so

[flyinthebug]

This is not the 1st man in history who lied to get laid! If this was considered rape.. Id guess most of us on this board would be guilty too. This isnt about religion or any other far fetched BS..The guy told the girl what she wanted to hear and she consented without doing a full background check.. Sorry, not rape, not even close.

PS.. according to the article, they went on a rooftop and she initiated the act of sex. Not only is she kinda loose by bangin a guy she met 20 mins earlier, but she also initiated it. This IS all about racism and nothing more.

[The Old Fogducker]

FTB .... I must confess under your basic criteria, and widen it to so-called "white lies" then many of us would be considered to be serial rapists ... LOL.

Right down to .... "Does this dress make me look fat?"

OFD

[niss]

Rape by definition is non-consensual sex, and she obviously gave her consent at the time. This seems to be a case where the girl regrets what she did and has decided to punish the guy for her mistakes. Regret should never allowed as the only incriminating evidence in a rape case, ever.

BUT

It was consensual because she was under the impression that he was of the same faith as she. If he was not of the same faith she would not have given him the time of day. He had a motive. Sleep with her.

He devised a method to sleep with her. A method that he knew (especially in the country he resides in) was not right. But he acted on it and he is now is paying the price.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... ion-charge

Without getting racist about it, and I know that'll be a HUGE challenge, is he guilty or not?

This is an issue of racism. She feels violated because she was not aware she was fucking an Arab. This is not a rape case.

That said in that part of the world where religious and cultural affiliation is of such importance this is a serious case of deception. He didn't rape her but I would argue he is guilty of fraud.

If you force yourself on a prostitute is it rape or theft?

[bmc]

If you force yourself on a prostitute is it rape or theft?

I was eating a cracker when I read that. Seriously, I almost choked.

Could I have you arrested on charges of attempted murder?

Too funny.

[Siddley Hawker]

If you force yourself on a prostitute is it rape or theft?

And what about if the check bounces?
She's lucky to be in Israel and not Iran, where the penalty for premarital sex really sucks.

[PunkStarStudios]

That said in that part of the world where religious and cultural affiliation is of such importance this is a serious case of deception. He didn't rape her but I would argue he is guilty of fraud.

I don't think it's even fraud. Fraud is using deception for a financial gain - where there's another person which acted on that deception (who suffered the loss). No loss - no fraud. It's as much a criminal case as it is a human rights case for discriminating against him for being (or not being) of a nationality.

[niss]

That said in that part of the world where religious and cultural affiliation is of such importance this is a serious case of deception. He didn't rape her but I would argue he is guilty of fraud.

I don't think it's even fraud. Fraud is using deception for a financial gain - where there's another person which acted on that deception (who suffered the loss). No loss - no fraud. It's as much a criminal case as it is a human rights case for discriminating against him for being (or not being) of a nationality.

That makes sense for here. Over there Palestinians get killed for selling land to Jews. Jews get tagged as traitors for sympathizing with Palestinians. It is a very race oriented society on both sides of the green line, it is disgusting to violate another persons trust for any sort of gain.

It is a gray area. Is it ok to have sex with a drunk chick even if she consents? Is it ok to sell a blind person ridiculously ugly clothes by telling them they look great?

[Road Trip]

I read the article. It says he never told her he was Arab. But it also says, 1) she didn't ask and 2) most importantly that she never told him she was Jewish. Is she not just as gulty of deciving him?

What if he had gone to the police station first and claimed she enticed him into sex and never told him she was jewish. Would she then be the one facing charges?

How was it that she was able to figure out that he was Arab after the fact? Obviously she doesnt know any of this friends, family or co workers as she had to wait for him to call back to track him down. It honestly sounds like a set up and she may have known all along. . .

At any rate this is all crazy, a higher court needs to throw this out.

[JakeYYZ]

Is it racism for a woman looking for a relationship/sex to prefer partners from her own ethnic or cultural background? Of course not. Otherwise, people of every ethnicity in North America who date and marry within their faith or ethnic group could be considered racist.
The article linked by BMC, leaves out some pertinent details:

Sabbar Kashur, 30, was convicted as part of a plea bargain. According to the indictment, Kashur met the complainant in September 2008 in downtown Jerusalem, presenting himself as a Jewish bachelor looking for a serious romantic relationship.

Link: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... e-1.302895
The guy was convicted of rape by deception for pretending that (1) he was a Jew; and, (2) that he was single.
Most seem to ignore the fact that people generally use some concept of risk vs. reward in arriving at many decisions. If the risks are deemed slight in relation to the rewards the behavior is more likely to occur.

[moocow]

Actually, sex with really drunk chicks do count as rape because they are not of sound mind. They actually covered that during during high school. It's similar concept of entering into contract with a drunk person, it won't count.

As for North Americans marrying within their own race, it's quasi-discriminatory. Some people just don't like how other culture operates. Some just don't like mixing it up with other races. I seen other Chinese that refuse to socialize with people that aren't Chinese and I was more or less an odd ball in their perspective because I have non Chinese friends.

[shitdisturber]

[quote="niss Is it ok to sell a blind person ridiculously ugly clothes by telling them they look great?[/quote]

Ask Stevie Wonder, or his tailor.

[Nark]

The laws in which we know are based on the English Common Law system. Most Western countries follow this basic system. Of course all have changed, molded and adapted as necessary; however two things must be present in order to considered an act a crime:

Mens Rae: the criminal intent.
Actus Reus: the criminal act.

A half-assed DA/crown lawyer could argue that it was rape, however (un)common sense says it was just another night out.

[The Old Fogducker]

Nark:

Slight modification.

There are also "strict liability Offences" .... where there is a prohibition by regulation or act, and if the contravention took place, there is no requirement to have had any intent (Mens Rea) to have contrvened the law, you did it ..... (the ignorance of the law is no defence situation.) Generally these are proceeded with as Summary Conviction Offences. IE .. regulation made from the Highway Traffic Act regulating speed at 100 Kph ... you drive 120, and are caught, you didn't need to intend to speed, you did it, therefore, you are in violation.

The more serious crimes usually also contain the requirement for a guilty mind (Mens Rea,) so the contravenor must know he/she is about to violate the law, and a prosecutor must prove the person's state of mind to be successful in a proceeding. Murder in the First Degree for example requires a plan, knowlege of that planned act being illegal, and the killing must be carried out. These more serious of crimes are proceeded by Indictment.

Hope I remembered all that correctly! If not, it will be a matter of seconds before I'm corrected.

Gotta run.

The Old (Book 'em Sasquash) Fogducker

[polar one]

This whole matter of deceiving a woman to have sex with her is abhorrent, and a testimony to a man having to acieve through deception what he should be able to achieve through honesty.

Which is why I always ask: "does this smell like chloroform to you?"

[200hr Wonder]

Interesting situation, lets twist it a little shall we to see where it lands.

Same situation, only they are of the same religion, except he is HIV positive and knows it. The question of weather a person knowingly has any STIs is never asked. What then? Is he guilty for not disclosing his HIV positive status to her? Rape after the fact? I think you can argue in that case that the HIV positive guy has done something criminal for sure, bot not rape.

She rode the salami of her own free will in in the case where he turned out to be an Arab, it only become issue when she found out more information after the fact that in way harmed her. Raped her? I think not.

[iflyforpie]

It's not rape.... it's surprise sex.

[niss]

That's what I tell the wife after a roofiecolatta.

[Pratt]

Interesting situation, lets twist it a little shall we to see where it lands.

Same situation, only they are of the same religion, except he is HIV positive and knows it. The question of weather a person knowingly has any STIs is never asked. What then? Is he guilty for not disclosing his HIV positive status to her? Rape after the fact? I think you can argue in that case that the HIV positive guy has done something criminal for sure, bot not rape.

She rode the salami of her own free will in in the case where he turned out to be an Arab, it only become issue when she found out more information after the fact that in way harmed her. Raped her? I think not.

I do believe that a person with HIV is supposed to let a partner know before hand. There have been people charged with it after the fact in the past.

[moocow]

Not the same thing. HIV positive result in bodily harm and therefore classified as assault. Recent cases of HIV positive person failed to disclose their condition resulted in charges of aggravated sexual assault. Since having sex with a person of different race and/or believes doesn't result in bodily harm, how could it be rape when consent was given? Can the man in question always assume Jewish women don't sleep with Arabs? She didn't disclose her preference and there's a chance that he thought she's an Arab too. This whole thing smell of racism.

[Dash-Ate]

Play it safe and follow your HR policy!!!

[Inverted2]

Not the same thing. HIV positive result in bodily harm and therefore classified as assault. Recent cases of HIV positive person failed to disclose their condition resulted in charges of aggravated sexual assault. Since having sex with a person of different race and/or believes doesn't result in bodily harm, how could it be rape when consent was given? Can the man in question always assume Jewish women don't sleep with Arabs? She didn't disclose her preference and there's a chance that he thought she's an Arab too. This whole thing smell of racism.

Of course it is racism. Its a double standard. Different rules when it comes to the "Tribe" They promote race mixing in all their movies and TV shows but that of course doesn't apply to them.

[niss]

You can tell from the dudes pic that hes obviously a sex offender, but his latest stint does pose a few questions.

Ottawa County sheriff's deputies arrested the 39-year-old Grand Rapids man on accusations that he was posing as a massage therapist and giving free rubdowns last week to women participating in an all-night filming of the movie starring Kurt Russell.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/ ... picio.html

Is it sexual assault if you consented to a guy giving you a massage under false pretense?