IFR upgrade?

[razorblade]

I have a Group 3 IFR and am looking to upgrade to a Group 1.. Does it count as an initial test, or a renewal, or is "upgrade" a special category in the flight test guide?
What are a few places to get the multi/IFR? The place should be reasonable with availability.

I'm currently at a popular FTU in MB. And i get a nice discount here too, but the aircraft is frequently snagged, so i don't know if i wanna waste time when the plane is in the hangar half the time.

[FlaplessDork]

Its an upgrade/renewal. Your INRAT test is still valid with your valid Group 3. When it came time to renew my Group 1 the first time all I did was a Group 3 because at the time all I was flying was complex singles. I didn't do any training and just went for the ride. A year later I took the Group 1 ride because I got a job flying twins.

They will probably treat it like an initial and make you do an ILS. You will get 2 years from your most recent flight test.

Sucks about snags. Find a place where their twin is going non stop and really busy and it probably will have less snags, but then you'll be fighting with other students to get bookings. Catch 22.

[razorblade]

Does that mean that the whole thing can be done on an FTD? Incl the flight test?

[C-GPFG]

Examiners never made my candidates do an ILS when upgrading to a group 1 when I was teaching. It was treated like a group 1 renewal. The nearest ILS was about 40NM away. I don't think it's a requirement to do an ILS as part of the upgrade.

[razorblade]

I'd like to do the ILS, that's not even the concern here. What I wanna know is, can the upgrade be done on a approved FTD?

[FlaplessDork]

I'd like to do the ILS, that's not even the concern here. What I wanna know is, can the upgrade be done on a approved FTD?

Good question. I'm not sure on that answer. You should call Transport and ask.

I would think as you have a Group 3 instrument rating, you'd only be able to renew it as a Group 3. Upgrading to a Group 1 would probably be classified as an Initial Group 1 as I think they are technically seperate ratings.

[Dagwood]

I'd like to do the ILS, that's not even the concern here. What I wanna know is, can the upgrade be done on a approved FTD?

From the Instrument Rating Flight Test Guide:

The initial flight test for the Instrument Rating may be conducted in an aircraft or in a full-flight simulator (FFS) meeting the requirements stated in this section. The flight test for the renewal of the Instrument Rating may be conducted in an aircraft, in a full-flight simulator or in a flight training device (FTD) meeting the requirements stated in this section.

The avcanadians consensus is that it will be treated as a renewal: no ILS and it may be done in an FFS or FTD or a real airplane. However, it is always smart to double check with transport or a DFTE.

[Teeg]

ive trained a lot of group 3s who knew that through a PPC theyd get their group 1. get their 3 ticket training on a 172, and then get their 1 through doing a a navajo ppc for their respective company. obviously the biggest difference isnt the procedures rather the single engine approach. My first thought is its NOT a renewal (i dont have the reference) because it is a new rating.

and for this reason you could do it in a sim. but itd be a full motion. the school i work at can do renewal on a King Air 200 sim, as its a level 5, but you can not do initials. I *dont think* a FTD ATC810 or Elite qualifies either

T

[skywardbound]

I'd like to do the ILS, that's not even the concern here. What I wanna know is, can the upgrade be done on a approved FTD?

Did you end up upgrading in a FTD or did you have to use an airplane?

[phantom]

As it stands right now, you can upgrade your Group 3 to a Group 1 with a simple IFR renewal ride in an approved FTD. A number of flight schools are now doing this. That being said, the regulator could put a policy statement out to change that at any time.

[skywardbound]

As it stands right now, you can upgrade your Group 3 to a Group 1 with a simple IFR renewal ride in an approved FTD. A number of flight schools are now doing this. That being said, the regulator could put a policy statement out to change that at any time.

I am assuming that you would need your multi rating first though. This would make things easier for most as the availability of the multi trainer is the hardest part of the multi IFR I am finding.

[razorblade]

Did you end up upgrading in a FTD or did you have to use an airplane?

I ended up using the plane because the lady at TC told me it would count as an initial. Also, my license now has a group 3 and a group 1 IFR - yes, two seperate lines! Apparently the group 1 doesn't upgrade the 3, but gives you a new one instead.

[Cobra64]

quoting this instead of starting a new thread, I have heard that this change has been made, you can't upgrade a group 3 to a group one by doing a renewal. Can anybody confirm/deny this with a reference that I just can't seem to find?

As it stands right now, you can upgrade your Group 3 to a Group 1 with a simple IFR renewal ride in an approved FTD. A number of flight schools are now doing this. That being said, the regulator could put a policy statement out to change that at any time.

[KK7]

An instrument rating and its group are two separate things. You do an initial instrument rating then every subsequent flight test is a renewal so long as you still have a valid instrument rating or do it within 24 months of its expiry. The group awarded is determined by which aircraft you fly in. A group 1 instrument rating is not a different instrument rating than a group 3, it simply allows you to fly a different class of aircraft IFR.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_46