Contract Negotiations, LOL

[Bede]

WestJet doesn't pay their pilots "so well". If you compare total compensation and benefits between a 737 captain and a 320 captain at Air Canada I believe you'll see quite the disparity. The disparity only becomes greater any year that the stocks decline.

Except I can retire at 50 from WJA provided I get a 6% return on investment. If I want to retire with a similar "pension" as an AC guy gets, I need to work until 60. Also, I'm not pissed off every time I have go to work.

[LisaS]

Quiet Bede, just smile and nod. We don't want them to know that our compensations IS better. I wonder why the 320 guys are trying to fight for what we have? Kinda makes you go hmmmm.

[babybus]

Except I can retire at 50 from WJA provided I get a 6% return on investment. If I want to retire with a similar "pension" as an AC guy gets, I need to work until 60. Also, I'm not pissed off every time I have go to work.[/quote]

Actually the vast majority of the guys love their job.I fly the 320 and like my job very much.
I don't know dollar for dollar how I compare to my colleague at WJ but I know I have a very good pay and pension. I fly for a great company that is respected worlwide and in most of Canada......some will always bash us no matter how good we get.I am always treated with fairness and respect by my higher ups and I can tell you that in the last 2 years the atmosphere has improved dramatically.We are optimistic about the direction the airline is taking and a lot of clients are noticing.Service has improved immensly, our worlwide network is growing, we have lot's of new widebodies on order, management is communicating with us and lot's of expansion is on the horizon.All in all we are checking our ''six'', protecting what should be our flying BUT the pilots have not been this optimistic in a long time
I'm not saying we hav'nt had problems in the last years but by reading this forum you get the impression AC is imploding, wich is false.
I am glad you WJ guys have it good,I wish more airlines in Canada could say the same....the more the better for our group as a WHOLE.
So guys please stop insulting my company and my group by making us look like a bunch of miserable farts.You know not what you are talking about...just what a friend of a friend said or what you read on this forum...wich by the way the VAST majority of guys don/t know exist.
I am happy that you like your job....now be happy that AC has experienced a dramatic turn around....we all benefit from it, you included.

[PSEU]

Great post babybus,

Dont listen to some of the clowns on here, they give us WJ guys a bad name. As you said before,alot of our pilots dont know about this web site/ or bash AC. I jump with you guys often from the rock and find your planes very clean, great entertainment system and most of all, great customer service. You guys really turned it around !! Happy your enjoying the job.

[aerodude]

Fair enough. I was thinking more of the U.S. airlines when I made that comment. Compare a 12 year AA 737 Capt with a 12 year Southwest pilot and that's quite the discrepancy. Best of luck to all AC pilots in the negotiations, us younger generation of pilots look up to you.

Sadly, the senior pilots that you look up to, voted for us junior pilots to have a 37k as a starting salary at AC, the well respected airline. As much as ACPA thinks they are a union for all AC pilots, they are full of BS.

[sepia]

WestJet doesn't pay their pilots "so well". If you compare total compensation and benefits between a 737 captain and a 320 captain at Air Canada I believe you'll see quite the disparity. The disparity only becomes greater any year that the stocks decline.

Except I can retire at 50 from WJA provided I get a 6% return on investment. If I want to retire with a similar "pension" as an AC guy gets, I need to work until 60. Also, I'm not pissed off every time I have go to work.

How much do you have to have banked by age 50 to draw $125k/yr out for the rest of your life. I had to take a quick peak into this because it seems like you'd need a lot. I just check one site but they came up with:

Total Required RSP Savings for Retirement (to draw 125k/year)
$4,435,387.32

So in your mind, you'll have something in the ballpark of 4 million in your savings by the time you hit 50? What about 2 million? That sounds somewhat more real. A captain working O/T there makes roughly 200k/yr. Of that 200k you take home roughly half. So out of your 100k of spendable income how much do you have to save each year to end up with your 2,000,000+ in the bank? A new hire now expects somewhere in the ball park of a 10yr upgrade right? Even if you're hired at 25, that means you're 35 by the time that you're really able to start banking big bucks. So you get 15yrs in the left seat before you hit 50 and retire. I must be missing a very large part of the equation.

A few quick points.

1. AC guys can go at 55 with a hit to the pension, and then take take their type ratings over seas and double dip for a few years making tax free salary while drawing their pension also.

2. You assume that the AC guy can't invest just like you and then draw savings in addition to pension.

3. I believe you missed my "total benefits" theme there too. WJ's heath benefits are considerably less. While this might seem like no big deal when you're 30, it will seem more important when you're 50 and your wife and kids are also using the plans.

4. I don't hate going to work. We fly great planes. We stay at great hotels (not including edmonton). We fly all over the world.

[Bede]

Sorry, my post was not meant to slag AC at all. I'm just saying compensation is similar with the 320 guys. I mentioned I could retire at 50 with all I need (kids done university, house paid off), and 60 with a similar pension as an AC guy. Sepia is correct, that would be about $4M, which after 30 years of contributing 20% ESP and 6% interest is about right.

As for hating going to work, I'm glad to see things are looking up for you guys.

[accumulous]

Even if you're hired at 25, that means you're 35 by the time that you're really able to start banking big bucks. So you get 15yrs in the left seat before you hit 50 and retire. I must be missing a very large part of the equation.

A few quick points.

1. AC guys can go at 55 with a hit to the pension, and then take take their type ratings over seas and double dip for a few years making tax free salary while drawing their pension also.

2. You assume that the AC guy can't invest just like you and then draw savings in addition to pension.

The big part of the equation that you suggest is missing is of course that the WJ guys can stay at WestJet as long as they want, 60, 65, or whatever, which will shortly be the case at AC. Pilots will still have the option to bail but if they, as is the case with the majority, have families and do not want to go overseas, they won't have to. The WJers have the stability option to remain at home in their base without any disruption, if they so chose. Now with the vast majority (almost all) Air Canada pilots who will never have a chance to come anywhere near their max pension by virtue of years of service, they will all have the option available to carry on.

[BeechjetYKZ]

"Hey pilot"