Salary survey! MORE INPUT IS NEEDED FROM MORE CANDIDATES!

[J-Hunter]

Here I am badgering the AvCanada community again! So, please bear with me! We are stretching the deadline a bit more therefore for those that haven't had the chance to complete the survey yet, we would dearly appreciate it. We have interviewed 552 pilots up to now out of which we have captains, fo's, chief pilots, corp pilots, bush pilots, cargo pilots, instructors, test pilots, helicopter pilots, army pilots, and the list goes on and on (excuse-me if I have forgotten to put in the rest) and before I go any further I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU, UN GROS MERCI, to all of YOU! However, we are looking to reach for 1000 and this is possible with your help. I have also decided that general results will be published without specifying company names but by making province based averages and making a general report on the industry. I figure this will be a general picture of aviation in Canada and will be interesting to read upon not only for future students but actual people on the current job market. If certain people are worried about the info that they have contributed, I would like to repeat once more that company names will not be revealed and salary averages will be summed up to categories (70x according to CARs). If you have any concerns please feel free to PM me and I will respond ASAP. Thank you all for your cooperation!

SURVEY DESCRIPTION BELOW

In one of our classes we're currently analyzing pilot salaries and input is really hard to get ahold of! So, I figured that you guys could maybe give us a hand and help us clarify what pilots usually make $$$-wise and at what level they get it (1st, 2nd, 3rd level companies).

We're looking for solid examples and trying to avoid pilot salaries websites. This is all done in order to give future students and idea of what to expect once they'll be the ''200 hr wonders'' that they aren't yet, hence their consciousness will be updated and will not ask questions like : ''When do I go to the right seat and cash in the 100K/year?''


Thank you all for participating and study data will be kept 100% confidential and used for educational purposes only. Your input is greatly appreciated and respected.

Please click below in order to access the survey (13 questions long ONLY!)

http://www.kwiksurveys.com?s=HHEJFF_d2119615

[J-Hunter]

Just want to thank everybody for their input up to now! 24 views and 6 responses! I love AVCANADA. Thanks guys!

[Bushav8er]

Survey completed honestly, but be sure to include the fact that 'puppy mills' keep pushing these '200 hr wonders' into a saturated market ensuring continued dog eat dog battles for jobs and low wages.

[jet a1]

this might be the first and only case of a flight school knowing and then teaching the truth....well done guys.

[J-Hunter]

this might be the first and only case of a flight school knowing and then teaching the truth....well done guys.

[Changes in Latitudes]

What are you using this survey for? If you are using it in pursuit of a higher education, you may want to clean it up a fair bit.

[Nark]

Submitted.

The only comment I have is the question of what tier you work for.

A company like Transwest would be both 2 and 3 in your scale, but a PA31 pilot and a saab capt would be miles apart, both selecting "captain".

[J-Hunter]

Submitted.

The only comment I have is the question of what tier you work for.

A company like Transwest would be both 2 and 3 in your scale, but a PA31 pilot and a saab capt would be miles apart, both selecting "captain".

I agree that the survey does need a lot of fine-tuning however I put it together in 2 hours looking to get basic input mostly in regards to salaries & positions within the company (ex. capt & f/o) and time that the employee has been employed within the company. I'm sorry if there are mistakes, the program used is a free service and unfortunately does not allow question changes after the survey has been published, otherwise I would've made the changes immediately. Thanks for those still replying.

Regards,

J-Hunter

[Jack Klumpus]

More info than I'd like to share.

[J-Hunter]

I would like to thank everyone whom has participated up to now. We have 200 interviews conducted and going. Our objective is 500 after which results will be split up according to experience, position and years with the company. Bestest of regards to everyone!

[North Shore]

Dude, you need to get out of school and/or change your frame of reference a little! WTF's with the "1st, 2nd and 3rd level" companies? Who decides what is what? For some of us out here, flying a Beaver on floats is where it's at, and that's our 1st level company; some guys have only ever wanted to fly for a regional - you get the picture...
Perhaps split the categories into things like Airline, Commuter, Bush, Medevac...

[Heliian]

I take offence to that "puppy mill" comment. How did you get your start, jackass. If the younger gen has the passion and wants to learn how to fly, why would you stop that. Just think if every pilot coming out of IFT got a job and there was no competition, we'd be stuck with even more re-tards than there are working now.

Back on point though, good luck with the survey, i've seen a thousand of this type of survey and the data gets all skewed about and becomes pretty inaccurate. You probably be better off asking the employers about salary, they usually have payscales set up that reflect the actual conditions better and you could narrow down the types of ops too. Good effort though. +1

[Bushav8er]

I take offence to that "puppy mill" comment. How did you get your start, jackass.

I earned it. I worked and saved and paid for it, all of it, not 'Daddy' but me. I did the commercial, not to work but to keep learning. I started working in aviation when a job was offered to me, therefore a job existed.

I have nothing against young people learning to fly. I do have a problem with schools that keep feeding the saturated system using the age old cry "Pilot shortage". There should a cap and doors only open, for a limited number, when a job shortage is really forecast. Push out Private Pilots, multi's, IFR as much as you like, it promotes GA but do everyone a favour and restrict the Commercial based on actual demand of the industry, not the schools idea of a cash flow supply.

Or are you in favour of pushing these kids out to discover there are no jobs and that they have student loans they can't pay off, or eating KD because if you don't do it, there is always someone else willing to 'do it' for free?

[Heliian]

I agree with you bush, there should be some more realistic targets for CPL's, the problem is though that you can't stop a kid who's dreamed of being a pilot since he/she was two from persuing a career they are interested in. The "unrealistic" schools are usually in the south of the country, won't name any names, they are only in it for the cash and not the betterment of the industry. We could go full circle and start about professionalism again but these places just aren't going to stop on their own, what can we do?

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Dude, you need to get out of school and/or change your frame of reference a little! WTF's with the "1st, 2nd and 3rd level" companies? Who decides what is what? For some of us out here, flying a Beaver on floats is where it's at, and that's our 1st level company

Couldn't get into AC huh?




Just a joke....

I think when he says "level" he means "tier" as in tier 1 is AC, tier 2 is Jazz, and tier 3 is Georgian for example

[beast]

you can't stop a kid who's dreamed of being a pilot since he/she was two from persuing a career they are interested in

Well, not every kid who dreams of being a doctor or a lawyer gets the ticket.... why should our profession be any different?

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Why is there always so much bitterness on AvCanada?

[WetJet]

J-Hunter,
Are you interested in hearing from people with CPLs who left aviation? I know a lot of people with CPLs who never got the first job and even a few people with over 1000 hours that said F#(\< it and left for greener pastures. I think unless you take into account the people who never continued in aviation, you won't get a true picture of what a future CPL can expect.
WJ

[J-Hunter]

J-Hunter,
Are you interested in hearing from people with CPLs who left aviation? I know a lot of people with CPLs who never got the first job and even a few people with over 1000 hours that said F#(\< it and left for greener pastures. I think unless you take into account the people who never continued in aviation, you won't get a true picture of what a future CPL can expect.
WJ

That would be great input also and I would totally appreciate it! I have a few up to now within the 373 pilots that have completed the survey that have said to have quit the industry however haven't been descriptive about it. The study is mainly oriented towards salaries, positions and ranks however additional input is always welcome! Thank you all once more for participating!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

How are the numbers so far....what you expected or disappointing?

[J-Hunter]

How are the numbers so far....what you expected or disappointing?

Highs and lows, all depends on the companies, seniority and etc...; it also broadens a lot of horizons and makes you a lot more conscious when it comes to the role of aviation in Canada. I have 376 people that responded up to now and very few whom work for the same company which I figure is excellent news.

[snoopy]

J-Hunter, I realize you said you did this survey in a hurry, and say you can't change it, so it makes me wonder how you intend to accurately meet this objective: "Our objective is 500 after which results will be split up according to experience, position and years with the company."

First off, I didn't see any question in the survey that asked about number of hours, multiple licenses/ratings held and actual, well, experience. I based my answers to your questions based on a recent short term gig, which does not reflect either the type of flying I would typically do, or pay I might earn.

A pilot, particularly contract or seasonal, might experience wild fluctuations in pay and benefits over say a 10 year spread. A couple of direct factors in this will be the current pilot economy, and level of demand for a pilot's experience and qualifications. Accident and incident records also play a role. Also, many pilots negotiate their own rates, so the rate for one pilot may not reflect what another pilot doing the same job is making.

Others above have made good points (some are just scrapping in the sand box).

Bottom line is, perhaps you should view this survey as preliminary research and use the information to construct a more thorough survey. If you decide to do that, I can assure you there will be no shortage of advice and/or opinions from AvCanada users.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[J-Hunter]

J-Hunter, I realize you said you did this survey in a hurry, and say you can't change it, so it makes me wonder how you intend to accurately meet this objective: "Our objective is 500 after which results will be split up according to experience, position and years with the company."

First off, I didn't see any question in the survey that asked about number of hours, multiple licenses/ratings held and actual, well, experience. I based my answers to your questions based on a recent short term gig, which does not reflect either the type of flying I would typically do, or pay I might earn.

A pilot, particularly contract or seasonal, might experience wild fluctuations in pay and benefits over say a 10 year spread. A couple of direct factors in this will be the current pilot economy, and level of demand for a pilot's experience and qualifications. Accident and incident records also play a role. Also, many pilots negotiate their own rates, so the rate for one pilot may not reflect what another pilot doing the same job is making.

Others above have made good points (some are just scrapping in the sand box).

Bottom line is, perhaps you should view this survey as preliminary research and use the information to construct a more thorough survey. If you decide to do that, I can assure you there will be no shortage of advice and/or opinions from AvCanada users.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

Thank you Kirsten! Many things that you are saying are entirely true and I agree with you 100%. I know that things should be perfected and I'll do my best to see if I can make a more thorough survey in order to correct the negative parts of the survey and of course make results more precise. The fun thing about what I have gotten now from the 380 interviewees is that I have a whole board of different types of flying, years of experience and so on and so forth. What I would have liked would've been to have more women complete the survey (women being about 3% of those that have answered up to now). Anyways, thank you for the post and I'll do my best to do eventual touch-ups and repost the survey in order for it to be done correctly and more precisely. Once more thanks to everybody for participating!

[J-Hunter]

Just topped 447 responses! Thank you guys once more!