Flight Duty Times

[TopperHarley]

Hey guys,

I understand that the flight duty time restrictions and time free from duty standards only apply to pilots who are flying an a/c under a 700 series OC (i.e. they do not apply to instructors or people who fly a privately registered a/c). So if I am currently flying a private a/c, I can legally fly over 120 hours/month, 300 hrs/90 days, etc and still get credit for all these hours towards a higher rating (ATP).

What happens though, if you fly both a privately and a commercially registered a/c? Can you still log more than 1200 hrs/yr (or 120/month, 300/90 days, etc) if the flying is split between the 2 a/c?

I have tried to find a reference, but no luck. I know the duty times in the CARs are under section 7, which only applies to commercial air services (702-705).

Thanks in advance,

Chris.

[wha happen]

i was always under the assumption that you coulds only fly 1200 hours commercially, anything done privately was fair game (ie: family on weekends etc.) now maybe im wrong, but thats what i always thought

[1st timer]

You are somewhat correct. As a private operator duty rules do not apply. However if you go over your times then you cannot fly commercially. For example for the last 18 days your times at you job are 100 hrs you get a week off and take your 172 on a tour through the States and put 25 hours on it. You are still legal but then you have to go back to work, now your times are 125 for the past 25 days, so you cannot work commercially. The above example in not withstanding of any OPS spec you may have. Hope that this is now clear as mud.

[Aeros]

If you are flying privately (or as an instructor working under CAR 405/406) then you are not limited in the maximum number of hours you can fly a year. If you are able to fly 2000 hours per year go for it. The time all counts and can be applied towards any higher licence or rating without restrictions.

If you are flyign some combination of Part 7 ops and privately then ALL (both the commercial and private) of the flying that you do counts towards your totals. I suppose you could exceed the maximum times as long as all of time after the respective maximum came while doing the private stuff. Lots of folks have been caught because they have accepted a commercial flight that put them over the maximum.

This scenario would be OK:
First 11 months of the year -- 1150 hours commercial work
Last month of the year -- 100 hours private flying


This scenario would not:
First month of the year -- 100 hours private flying
Last 11 months of the year -- 1150 hours commercial work (since you are now bound by the 700 rules and you have just flown 1250 hours in the last year.)

Bottom line -- If the flying is private, the max flight time rules don't apply. If the flying is regulated by Part 7 then ALL of your flying time must be counted, including the pleasure flying.

[greenwich]

Clear as mud for sure, but I believe '1st timer' is right. Than you cannot let your 'recreational flying' bump your time over the maximum times listed in the CARS and/or your ops manual.

We are allowed 100h in 30 days, so I can't be at 99.1 hrs in 30 days and then go to the club take a 172 out for a 3 hour rip.

G

[dirk82]

So this is an old thread I came across trying to find the answer to this exact question. I did go searching the CARS and didnt really find anything really specific. Just wondering if anyone has any recent insight into what applies in this situation.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I think Aeros pretty well nailed it.

[just curious]

You may go wild with non 703-4-5 or 604 flying, but you may not undertake any CARs -governed flying while in excess of the limits for the day, week, 30/90 or annual limits. Your Cars governed employer will have very specific policies regarding this.

[turbo-prop]

Unless you are under a POC;

Division VI — Flight Time and Flight Duty Time
Flight Time Limits
604.36 (1) No private operator shall assign flight time to a flight crew member — and no
flight crew member shall accept such an assignment — if the flight crew member’s total flight
time in all flights conducted under this Subpart, or Part IV or Part VII of the Regulations, would,
as a result, exceed
(a) 1,200 hours in a period of 12 consecutive months;
(b) 300 hours in a period of 90 consecutive days;
(c) 120 hours in a period of 30 consecutive days; or
(d) 8 hours in a period of 24 consecutive hours, if the assignment is for a single-pilot IFR
flight.
(2) If a flight crew’s flight duty time is extended under section 604.39, each flight crew member
accumulates, for the purposes of subsection (1), the total flight time for the flight or the total
flight time for the series of flights, as the case may be.
Flight Duty Time Limits and Rest Periods
604.37 (1) Subject to sections 604.38 to 604.40, no private operator shall assign flight duty
time to a flight crew member — and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment —
if the flight crew member’s flight duty time would, as a result, exceed
(a) 14 consecutive hours in any period of 24 consecutive hours; or
(b) 15 consecutive hours in any period of 24 consecutive hours, if
(i) the flight crew member's total flight time in the previous 30 consecutive days does not
exceed 70 hours, or
(ii) the rest period before the flight is at least 24 hours.
(2) A private operator shall ensure that, prior to reporting for flight duty, a flight crew member
is provided with the minimum rest period and with any additional rest period required by this
Division.
(3) A flight crew member shall use the following periods to be adequately rested prior to reporting
for flight duty:
(a) the minimum rest period provided in accordance with subsection (2);
JUS-81100-2-109-8
2011-07-07 (15:01)
(b) any additional rest period required by this Division; and
(c) any period with no assigned duties provided in accordance with section 604.42.

[Eugene_goostman]

Unless you are under a POC;

Division VI — Flight Time and Flight Duty Time
Flight Time Limits
604.36 (1) No private operator shall assign flight time to a flight crew member — and no
flight crew member shall accept such an assignment — if the flight crew member’s total flight
time in all flights conducted under this Subpart, or Part IV or Part VII of the Regulations, would,
as a result, exceed
(a) 1,200 hours in a period of 12 consecutive months;
(b) 300 hours in a period of 90 consecutive days;
(c) 120 hours in a period of 30 consecutive days; or
(d) 8 hours in a period of 24 consecutive hours, if the assignment is for a single-pilot IFR
flight.
(2) If a flight crew’s flight duty time is extended under section 604.39, each flight crew member
accumulates, for the purposes of subsection (1), the total flight time for the flight or the total
flight time for the series of flights, as the case may be.
Flight Duty Time Limits and Rest Periods
604.37 (1) Subject to sections 604.38 to 604.40, no private operator shall assign flight duty
time to a flight crew member — and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment —
if the flight crew member’s flight duty time would, as a result, exceed
(a) 14 consecutive hours in any period of 24 consecutive hours; or
(b) 15 consecutive hours in any period of 24 consecutive hours, if
(i) the flight crew member's total flight time in the previous 30 consecutive days does not
exceed 70 hours, or
(ii) the rest period before the flight is at least 24 hours.
(2) A private operator shall ensure that, prior to reporting for flight duty, a flight crew member
is provided with the minimum rest period and with any additional rest period required by this
Division.
(3) A flight crew member shall use the following periods to be adequately rested prior to reporting
for flight duty:
(a) the minimum rest period provided in accordance with subsection (2);
JUS-81100-2-109-8
2011-07-07 (15:01)
(b) any additional rest period required by this Division; and
(c) any period with no assigned duties provided in accordance with section 604.42.

Not sure that this clears it up. Seems to say that only flights under that sub part can count towards the total. Says nothing about recreational flying.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Recreational flying doesn't have duty limits, so why would it say anything about them? This post is above, and clears everything up quite well:

If you are flying privately (or as an instructor working under CAR 405/406) then you are not limited in the maximum number of hours you can fly a year. If you are able to fly 2000 hours per year go for it. The time all counts and can be applied towards any higher licence or rating without restrictions.

If you are flyign some combination of Part 7 ops and privately then ALL (both the commercial and private) of the flying that you do counts towards your totals. I suppose you could exceed the maximum times as long as all of time after the respective maximum came while doing the private stuff. Lots of folks have been caught because they have accepted a commercial flight that put them over the maximum.

This scenario would be OK:

First 11 months of the year -- 1150 hours commercial work

Last month of the year -- 100 hours private flying

This scenario would not:

First month of the year -- 100 hours private flying

Last 11 months of the year -- 1150 hours commercial work (since you are now bound by the 700 rules and you have just flown 1250 hours in the last year.)

Bottom line -- If the flying is private, the max flight time rules don't apply. If the flying is regulated by Part 7 then ALL of your flying time must be counted, including the pleasure flying.

604 basicall follows the same rules as 703.

[Ref Plus 10]

Division VI — Flight Time and Flight Duty Time
Flight Time Limits
604.36 (1) No private operator shall assign flight time to a flight crew member — and no
flight crew member shall accept such an assignment — if the flight crew member’s total flight
time in all flights conducted under this Subpart, or Part IV or Part VII of the Regulations, would,
as a result, exceed
(a) 1,200 hours in a period of 12 consecutive months;
(b) 300 hours in a period of 90 consecutive days;
(c) 120 hours in a period of 30 consecutive days; or
(d) 8 hours in a period of 24 consecutive hours, if the assignment is for a single-pilot IFR
flight.

Relevant part highlighted: Total flight time in ALL flights conducted under (paraphrasing) CAR 400, 600, or 700 (read: ALL FLYING)

Ref

Edit: You'll find the same text (with appropriate differences) in part 7