Buttonville Airport . . . CYKZ

[wings905]

Can someone tell me the purpose of this forum? Aside from all the mudslinging and name calling, is this forum to discuss the closing of Buttonville?

[Truthteller]

We'll see what happens. The township will bury the effort in red tape. It needs approval by the ministry of the environment. The ministry of fisheries. Then there's the moriane and other protected areas. Markham airport could have expanded eons ago. Money isn't a problem for the Thompsons. So why isn't it built up like ckyz? Why is there an injunction? Come on, tell me if the law says they can do what hey want at that site. You guys have no real world knowledge of how the system works.

As to the right handed loop off 15, you guys have proven my point. The standard left loop was changed to a right loop for noise abatement to protect the Markham residents. Meanwhile all they do is fly over Richmond Hill and move the problem. This is why I'm saying and you're just confirming that Markham has a serious issue with NIMBYism.

As for bizjets, shouldn't you be teaching or inspecting some planes for airworthiness or something useful.

[Truthteller]

Now Truthteller/MarkhamResident, you've got Sidney's brother (bcrosby) involved! Now you're in trouble!

Oh I'm shaking now.

[kzcvtm]

As to the right handed loop off 15, you guys have proven my point. The standard left loop was changed to a right loop for noise abatement to protect the Markham residents. Meanwhile all they do is fly over Richmond Hill and move the problem. This is why I'm saying and you're just confirming that Markham has a serious issue with NIMBYism.

Aerobatics are not allowed in a control zone or over populated areas. Loop indeed. Obviously you have no aviation experience or you would know the proper terms in order to converse intelligently. (What was I thinking?! Look who I'm responding to!)

Your argument again holds no water. The right hand circuits were established in consultation with the community/TC/Buttonville so the airport and community can work together as partners - not to protect NIMBY's. These right hand circuits off Rwy 15 DO NOT overfly Richmond Hill residents, just a business park. All flights/circuits over the Markham area are at a minimum 1000' AGL (that's Above Ground Level for you non pilots).

[fleet16b]

We'll see what happens. The township will bury the effort in red tape. It needs approval by the ministry of the environment. The ministry of fisheries. Then there's the moriane and other protected areas.

Well truthteller/markhamresident. I guess I should have posted the entire Juducial Ruling.
The ruling started with an aviation company that was operating off a lake in Que. The municipality tried to shut them down . The used threats from the Ministries fish / enviro but all of them were shut down by the ruling and the operator is still there! None of this matters though because I think the owners have no intention of Markham becoming a large airport. Why I say this I will not state publically . Take it as you like. I don't really care.

Markham airport could have expanded eons ago. Money isn't a problem for the Thompsons. So why isn't it built up like ckyz? Why is there an injunction?

It was not expanded eons ago because the owners would not and I suspect did not intend it to. From my dealings with the Manager, he is actually or was a Property Manager who happens to have an interest in aviation and plays around while he manages the property investment.
There are sound financial reasons for letting a business exist on land that is intended as an investment instead of letting it sit dormant.( I won't side track into that here)
As for the injunction, it is an ill informed attempt by the Municipality They have no idea of where the Jurisdiction lies. Alterations, expansions all fall under Federal Jurisdiction.That is a fact. Again research the rulings. The manager of Markham airstrip has always maintained this and while I don't buy into much of the other crap he has stated over the years , he is right in that respect. In fact he kept on getting land fill after they tried to stop him because he knew the law was on his side.

You guys have no real world knowledge of how the system works.

If you ever bother to actually do some research instead of spouting off without knowing what you are saying , you would realize it is you that has no idea. You have consistantly proved that truthteller/ markhamresident.
The people you are debating with far outclass your aviation knowledge base.
I love a good debate and a good challenge but your are providing neither
It's been fun winding you up but your getting boring now....... debating you poses no challenge and you are too easy to disprove.

[wings905]

Can someone tell me the purpose of this forum? Aside from all the mudslinging and name calling, is this forum to discuss the closing of Buttonville?

No answers? I'm interested in getting pilots licence, but reading this forum I'm wondering where to go. I live in Unionville so Buttonville makes sense, but now since it is closing I was thinking Markham?????

Can anyone tell me what would happen if I start at Buttonville and then it closes?

[kzcvtm]

I'm interested in getting pilots licence, but reading this forum I'm wondering where to go. I live in Unionville so Buttonville makes sense, but now since it is closing I was thinking Markham?????

Can anyone tell me what would happen if I start at Buttonville and then it closes?

Buttonville isn't going to close for a couple of years at least. You can certainly start and complete your training in that amount of time.

If you start at YKZ and it closes, you can go to Toronto Island (Billy Bishop), Brampton, Oshawa or Lake Simcoe Regional (Barrie area). There are plenty of other options, but those are probably the closest. You will simply continue from where you left off when your training was interrupted.

[wings905]

Buttonville isn't going to close for a couple of years at least. You can certainly start and complete your training in that amount of time.

If you start at YKZ and it closes, you can go to Toronto Island (Billy Bishop), Brampton, Oshawa or Lake Simcoe Regional (Barrie area). There are plenty of other options, but those are probably the closest. You will simply continue from where you left off when your training was interrupted.

Thanks for your reply.

When is Buttonville closing? From the posts is Markham closing too? I think Brampton and Oshawa are within range, however I could take the subway to the Toronto Island, I didn't know that the Toronto Island had a flight school. So are Brampton and Oshawa partners with Buttonville (same flight school) and will they accept my ground school and any hours I accumulate at Buttonville, or ask me to do more?

[kzcvtm]

Buttonville isn't going to close for a couple of years at least. You can certainly start and complete your training in that amount of time.

If you start at YKZ and it closes, you can go to Toronto Island (Billy Bishop), Brampton, Oshawa or Lake Simcoe Regional (Barrie area). There are plenty of other options, but those are probably the closest. You will simply continue from where you left off when your training was interrupted.

Thanks for your reply.

When is Buttonville closing? From the posts is Markham closing too? I think Brampton and Oshawa are within range, however I could take the subway to the Toronto Island, I didn't know that the Toronto Island had a flight school. So are Brampton and Oshawa partners with Buttonville (same flight school) and will they accept my ground school and any hours I accumulate at Buttonville, or ask me to do more?

Check your PM inbox.

[Truthteller]

You either don't fly or don't know where Richmond Hill is. Loop and circuit, whatever dude is that the best you got?

As to the right handed loop off 15, you guys have proven my point. The standard left loop was changed to a right loop for noise abatement to protect the Markham residents. Meanwhile all they do is fly over Richmond Hill and move the problem. This is why I'm saying and you're just confirming that Markham has a serious issue with NIMBYism.

Aerobatics are not allowed in a control zone or over populated areas. Loop indeed. Obviously you have no aviation experience or you would know the proper terms in order to converse intelligently. (What was I thinking?! Look who I'm responding to!)

Your argument again holds no water. The right hand circuits were established in consultation with the community/TC/Buttonville so the airport and community can work together as partners - not to protect NIMBY's. These right hand circuits off Rwy 15 DO NOT overfly Richmond Hill residents, just a business park. All flights/circuits over the Markham area are at a minimum 1000' AGL (that's Above Ground Level for you non pilots).

[Truthteller]

I still see you have no idea how the system works. After you sit down with TC, navcanada, Markham councillors and others who run the game you'll start to know what I know. Never mind all you Internet heroes.

We'll see what happens. The township will bury the effort in red tape. It needs approval by the ministry of the environment. The ministry of fisheries. Then there's the moriane and other protected areas.

Well truthteller/markhamresident. I guess I should have posted the entire Juducial Ruling.
The ruling started with an aviation company that was operating off a lake in Que. The municipality tried to shut them down . The used threats from the Ministries fish / enviro but all of them were shut down by the ruling and the operator is still there! None of this matters though because I think the owners have no intention of Markham becoming a large airport. Why I say this I will not state publically . Take it as you like. I don't really care.

Markham airport could have expanded eons ago. Money isn't a problem for the Thompsons. So why isn't it built up like ckyz? Why is there an injunction?

It was not expanded eons ago because the owners would not and I suspect did not intend it to. From my dealings with the Manager, he is actually or was a Property Manager who happens to have an interest in aviation and plays around while he manages the property investment.
There are sound financial reasons for letting a business exist on land that is intended as an investment instead of letting it sit dormant.( I won't side track into that here)
As for the injunction, it is an ill informed attempt by the Municipality They have no idea of where the Jurisdiction lies. Alterations, expansions all fall under Federal Jurisdiction.That is a fact. Again research the rulings. The manager of Markham airstrip has always maintained this and while I don't buy into much of the other crap he has stated over the years , he is right in that respect. In fact he kept on getting land fill after they tried to stop him because he knew the law was on his side.

You guys have no real world knowledge of how the system works.

If you ever bother to actually do some research instead of spouting off without knowing what you are saying , you would realize it is you that has no idea. You have consistantly proved that truthteller/ markhamresident.
The people you are debating with far outclass your aviation knowledge base.
I love a good debate and a good challenge but your are providing neither
It's been fun winding you up but your getting boring now....... debating you poses no challenge and you are too easy to disprove.

[kzcvtm]

You either don't fly or don't know where Richmond Hill is. Loop and circuit, whatever dude is that the best you got?

You are a waste of bandwidth.... if you don't know the difference between a loop and a circuit, you should leave this board and go back to your colouring book.

I certainly do fly and know more about the area than you do. The Beaver Creek industrial area is where the right hand CIRCUIT for CYKZ is flown over, dumbass. The actual town is Thornhill, within the Municipality of Markham, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Your childish responses simply prove you have nothing to back your arguments and that an adult debate about this is far beyond your mental capacity. How your Mommy allows you to use the computer without her knowledge is beyond me!

[Boreas]

Has anyone else heard rumors about Toronto Airways closing within 1 year or so?

[wings905]

Has anyone else heard rumors about Toronto Airways closing within 1 year or so?

What? I was just told by kzcvtm that it would not close for years!?!?! I think he said about 5 years. I would like to know too, does anyone know?

[Boreas]

He's referring to the airport. The flight school is another story... or so I've heard.

[bizjets101]

Buttonville Airport will be around for another 5 years.

The Sifton's have been clear that they will do whatever is in their power, to find another home for Toronto Airways once Buttonville closes.

Toronto Airways also operates Canadian Flight Academy at Oshawa Airport.

[wings905]

I guess you're talking about Canadian Flyers Incorporated since their website says they are at Buttonville, Markham, and the Island Airport, but I don't see Oshawa on their list?

http://www.canadianflyers.com/contactus.asp

I'll sign-up with them since if they close the Buttonville campus I'll just go to Markham, and if Markham closes I'll continue at the Island.

Let me know what you think and thanks for your input.

[Truthteller]

Operations at Buttonville will implode. Anyone who works there with more than two brain cells to rub together will see that there is no future there and move on. Let's see, Dayment first, I wonder who will follow? As for dear leader finding a new home, that's what he's telling the sheep. He told Markham council he was shutting the place down but outwardly he wasn't saying anything other than we aren't closing Buttonville ever for fear he'd hemorrhage people. Which to his credit he got that right. Sometimes miracles happen. He waited until he couldn't wait no more. To anyone running operations out of there, why would they stay? They'll be looking for a place to move and then take off ASAP before they lose their opportunity. Space is severely limited in the surrounding areas. The airport will stay open, but will anyone be there to fly out from it. Once the flight schools leave the airport's biggest problem will be keeping the runways clear of the tumbleweed.

Dear leader could just crack open the wallet and buy a swath of land nearby and re-open shop, but we all know the chances of that happening on his own dime. Mommy won't let baby piss away a few hundred million which is exactly what would happen without public funding. Let Buttonville be a shining example of that.

[Truthteller]

And where is the base and final leg of the circuit smart guy?

Being called a waste of bandwidth by some kid with a star trek avatar.

Where do you live young lad? Funny how you would know the area better than people who frequent it daily.

You either don't fly or don't know where Richmond Hill is. Loop and circuit, whatever dude is that the best you got?

You are a waste of bandwidth.... if you don't know the difference between a loop and a circuit, you should leave this board and go back to your colouring book.

I certainly do fly and know more about the area than you do. The Beaver Creek industrial area is where the right hand CIRCUIT for CYKZ is flown over, dumbass. The actual town is Thornhill, within the Municipality of Markham, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Your childish responses simply prove you have nothing to back your arguments and that an adult debate about this is far beyond your mental capacity. How your Mommy allows you to use the computer without her knowledge is beyond me!

[bizjets101]

Toronto Airways - Canadian Flight Academy - Oshawa

http://www.canadianflightacademy.ca/

PS; Wings905 sent you a PM.

[wings905]

Thanks to all for the info given, but it would be nice to talk to someone who actually works at Buttonville to find out what is happening with the closing of Buttonville.

Concerning those of you who have messaged me worried about what I think of the posts on this forum. I think Markham Resident is at the Markham Airport and I think Truthteller is a resident on the north-west side of Leslie and 16th. I'm not worried about what is said in open forums, you should go on the Toyota Forum and hear what people say about the dealerships and people who work there. Open discussions I think are always good, people are obviously upset and I would think it is good to hear it than to have it said behind the back.

I think I will go with Canadian Flyers since they are at Buttonville, Markham and the Island, also Derek Sifton (I think he is in charge) has said he is closing Buttonville, he just hasn't said when? For me that is the deciding factor, not knowing when Toronto Airways is going to close. Toronto Airways really should be more upfront about it.

[bizjets101]

PM sent with contact info!!

[wings905]

That is a cool picture you posted, is that Buttonville? When? Anymore pictures since my house is South-East Woodbine and 16th, it would be cool to have a picture of that area.

[Truthteller]

Why that's preposterous. Obviously Truthteller and Marhamresident are the same person according to biz jets and others. You have it all wrong.

You seem smarter than all the others. I would caution you to look at the discussions here and have your common sense guide you. Are you really going to believe someone who tries to say everyone who doesn't agree with him is the same person because for sure, no one else could have a different opinion. I'd be weary of anyone like that. They will tell you what you want to hear to take your money. If I was you I'd wait until TC root causes all the recent tragedies and see if there is some relation to the airport. Yeah, yeah everyone here will tell you it has nothing to do with the airport because it's safe, meanwhile no one knows the root cause of the crashes. So again, get ready to be told what you want to hear. If it were the skin off my back I'd wait and see else just fly out of another airport with a better record. Right now, the odds are against anyone flying out of Buttonville. 6 months, 6 dead.

Thanks to all for the info given, but it would be nice to talk to someone who actually works at Buttonville to find out what is happening with the closing of Buttonville.

Concerning those of you who have messaged me worried about what I think of the posts on this forum. I think Markham Resident is at the Markham Airport and I think Truthteller is a resident on the north-west side of Leslie and 16th. I'm not worried about what is said in open forums, you should go on the Toyota Forum and hear what people say about the dealerships and people who work there. Open discussions I think are always good, people are obviously upset and I would think it is good to hear it than to have it said behind the back.

I think I will go with Canadian Flyers since they are at Buttonville, Markham and the Island, also Derek Sifton (I think he is in charge) has said he is closing Buttonville, he just hasn't said when? For me that is the deciding factor, not knowing when Toronto Airways is going to close. Toronto Airways really should be more upfront about it.

[Pratt X 3]

If I was you I'd wait until TC root causes all the recent tragedies and see if there is some relation to the airport. Yeah, yeah everyone here will tell you it has nothing to do with the airport because it's safe, meanwhile no one knows the root cause of the crashes. So again, get ready to be told what you want to hear. If it were the skin off my back I'd wait and see else just fly out of another airport with a better record. Right now, the odds are against anyone flying out of Buttonville. 6 months, 6 dead.

Simple question; which crashes, that have occurred at Buttonville recently, would have been prevented if they were flying from a different airport?