That damned career question

[xTally]

Been working at a reputable 703/704 op now for about a year and a bit.
- Total time 3000 hrs
- ATPL all signed off
- Pic 1000 hrs (all in singles, instructing).
- 1800 ish hours multi tubine (SIC) larger than 12 500 lbs.
- Since things are slow, upgrade could be up to a year and a half in the making, but hopefully with things starting to pick up and will be faster (optimistically within one year).
- Lifestyle isn't bad. Reasonably satisfied with work and living situation. Not exactly where I want to be but it'll do for now.

Possible offer from 705 op (Jazz), pending Sim etc.

End goal = ac or westjet.

Is it worth the jump if the opportunity presents itself (for that coveted fms/glass/705 SIC time)?? Or is multi-turbine pic (greater than 12500) going to hold more weight down the road? Or does either really matter in the end (aka just roll the dice! )

Been chewing on this situation for a while. Opinions very much welcomed!

[willing to fly]

I am in a similar position to you. I know a few people that landed at AC with little/no MPIC. Like you they had some single PIC.

A friend of mine asked me to think of it like this: After you wait a long time to get upgraded and put in a year or two in that seat will you likely go on to Jazz anyway? Wouldn't you rather skip the step and put a year or two in at a good 705 operator? You'll end up at the same end goal but with a higher seniority number. At that level, everything is based on seniority and you're treated well while you wait your turn. It boils down to is this a better lifestyle than your 704 operator can offer?

I don't know what WS wants but after a year or two at Jazz, the economy will be different than it is today. It likely won't be any worse than it is today. Lots of people go from Jazz to WS from what i hear.

[square]

If I were you I'd skip Jazz and go straight from the left seat of your 704 company to an airline. Jazz sounds like a great gig and I'm sure it'd be a bang to work there, but my understanding is that you need the MPIC to go to WJ. Takes a long time to get that at Jazz.

[cdnpilot77]

If I were you I'd skip Jazz and go straight from the left seat of your 704 company to an airline. Jazz sounds like a great gig and I'm sure it'd be a bang to work there, but my understanding is that you need the MPIC to go to WJ. Takes a long time to get that at Jazz.

Isnt Jazz an airline?

[xTally]

Hi Guys. Thanks for the replies. Definately some stuff to think about.

I guess the aim if staying where I am now would be to skip Jazz altogether and go straight to AC or WJ. If that backfires and I get PFO'd then I definately would be in a worse position. That being said, I too have heard of people going to AC with little or no MPIC, however I am wondering if this is more the exception than the rule??

I've also heard that in the past Westjet has hired alot of people from Jazz. I would assume that many of people these have not been at Jazz long enough to go captain... but did they have MPIC time in a previous job? Or were they in the same boat as me?

[MAG1]

I've always considered my own skill level agaist my career aspirations. I feel like I've been lucky enough to go from a single engine job, to multi turbine FO, to multi piston pic, to multi turbine pic, to bigger multi turbine pic. Now I feel like I'm ready for the airlines. I strive to be confident in my abilities. I'd worry about getting into the airlines to fast and losing that time to "ply my trade" as it were. As I've reached each point in my career my next move should be one that will help make me a better pilot. The result on paper I hope is a versatile cv that can make me as valuable as possible. I've moved around alot, but haven't burnt any bridges. God I love my job!

[cdnpilot77]

Hi Guys. Thanks for the replies. Definately some stuff to think about.

I guess the aim if staying where I am now would be to skip Jazz altogether and go straight to AC or WJ. If that backfires and I get PFO'd then I definately would be in a worse position. That being said, I too have heard of people going to AC with little or no MPIC, however I am wondering if this is more the exception than the rule??

I've also heard that in the past Westjet has hired alot of people from Jazz. I would assume that many of people these have not been at Jazz long enough to go captain... but did they have MPIC time in a previous job? Or were they in the same boat as me?

This sounds oddly like a certain COMET...er....poster, that realised his nonsense was getting him nowhere and is looking to make a fresh more sensible start to his avcanada career...good luck Tally, and I mean that sincerely, I hope whichever path you decide to take works out well for you...remember that Jazz is a career airline for many, there is a reason for that.

[xTally]

Hi all thx for the advice.

cdnpilot77: im not sure who this comet person was so i cant relate to this statement. As for Jazz, I know its a great place to work and probably thats why it makes this decision very difficult. I know for myself that I really want to have the MPIC experience and to go captain at Jazz would mean letting go of my end goal of going to AC or WJ.

[stef]

I'm always amazed noone seems to care about which job pays more in these debates.

[xTally]

The pay in my case almost doesn't factor in, unless you start thinking very long term (5 + years). Although my FO pay right now isnt terribly high it is for me workable. It will go up and with an upgrade to Captain, will be more than on par with what the FO pay at Jazz for at least the first 4 years.

[mbav8r]

I think if you've gone through the process and get an offer of employment, you'd be silly not to take it. I'm not sure what the percentage of hiring vs interviewed is for mainline, but I'm sure it's not that high. Myself, I came to Jazz and after a short time I realised I didn't want to go the the other airlines, so I stopped updating my files. I can't attest to if, your lack of multi-pic will affect you down the road, but if you put all your eggs into WJ/AC baskets you may regret it.
Also, you may want to consider, with all the things going on at Jazz, there will be growth. My gut tells me big things happening soon....

[SunWuKong]

Been working at a reputable 703/704 op now for about a year and a bit.

Want some advice? Continue to work on your coming upgrade. Why? Because it does make sense. And making sense when it comes to our professional pilot life is more important than career chasing. Try to enjoy, and build your experience step by step in a logical path (meaning here: captain upgrade on the airplane you are flying). Don't look around, focus on improving your skills/knowledge/captain time. And don't worry, you will just be fine career wise. "Career" (or insert any jet/airline name instead) should be the result of your pilot/professional behaviour, and not the absolute focus.

I mean is there anything more than "I have 3000 hours ATPL signed off/qualify for jazz" in a pilot life nowadays? I really do hope so. Too bad that as we get pilot experience, we still have the same question as the teenager wannabe who ask about the best way to get to AC/WestJet.

P.S: nothing against Jazz particularly.

[Mustang06]

In the rest of the world pilots are ''ready'' to go to the airlines since they gets their CPL, Multi IFR and 200 hours, why in Canada you are ''ready'' only when you have thousands of hours and MPIC? , you don't have to be a super man to fly an airliner, good training and good attitude its what you need.

[flyincanuck]

Play the cards you have, not the ones you want to have.

If you don't want to hang your hat where you are and you've put in your time, move on and don't look back. Would Jazz be a "step up"? There's your answer.

Quite a few 10+ yr Beech skippers out there holding their breath for that call from WJ or AC.

The honest reality for some is that there might not ever be a call.

Don't over-think it.

[flyincanuck]

Oh, and I aint a BNN expert, but things are lookin mighty good at Jazz these days IMO.

[xTally]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the replies! Sounds like over time Jazz will be a safe bet even if my plans for AC or Westjet fall through. Although I would love to get some MPIC time it seems that alot of people here don't believe its completely necessary to move up. Guess we'll see how everything ends up in the sim eval first as it could be wishful thinking to assume I will have a choice in the end!

[SunWuKong]

In the rest of the world pilots are ''ready'' to go to the airlines since they gets their CPL, Multi IFR and 200 hours, why in Canada you are ''ready'' only when you have thousands of hours and MPIC? , you don't have to be a super man to fly an airliner

Sure you don't have to be superman This fact is so well understood that more and more 200 hours wannabe you mention actually pay to work. Shiny jet syndrom. Not sure we can take it as an example.

When you are hired on the right seat, the next step is to fly the same airplane from the left seat. That's because we don't respect simple logic in our industry that the salaries keep going down. We keep giving the proof to the industry that us pilot consider motivation to move on to the "jets" as more important than skills and logic. They have received your message, understood your motivation, evaluated your experience that doesn't make you an "expert" in your field anymore and treat/pay you in accordance (or ask you to pay to have the honnor to fly with daddy on the left in some countries).