"Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

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CL-Skadoo!
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"Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

The abuse and misuse of duty day extensions has to be one of the most recurring and irritating practices in use throughout our industry. Even a 14 hour duty day is a stretch under perfect circumstances; nevermind when the weather's been down at every stop, the aircraft isn't behaving, and you have to battle just to get the most inconsequential tasks completed. Now, enter your extension to 17 hours.

When exactly can one extend their duty day? Well, quite simply, your duty time may be extended if:
(a) the flight is extended as a result of unforeseen operational circumstances;

(b) the pilot-in-command, after consultation with the other flight crew members, considers it safe to exceed the maximum flight time and flight duty time; and
(amended 1999/06/01; previous version)

(c) the air operator and the pilot-in-command comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.
Which, for many operators in Canada, pretty much everything is unforeseen these days. It's not a 1920's airmail route, guys. Inclement weather is often forecasted 24 hours out. For the United States, ground delay programs and ground stops are often forecasted by ATCSCC 12 hours in advance of implementation. Passenger transportation took 2 hours in Toronto at 5pm on a Friday? Who could have foreseen that!? Our regulator has severely failed us in their definition of what actually allows us to extend our duty day to 17 hours. It is so vague that it opens the door for operators to walk all over crews. On the other hand, in order to be walked over, one must lay down, and as crews, that is exactly what we are doing when we extend to 17 hours with little justification.

TC issued an advisory circular last year for medevac operators, allowing them to go to 17 hours when transporting a patient from an isolated area ONLY ( http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... 2-1655.htm ). There are numerous criteria that must be met (status of patient, one cannot continue from a stop where proper medical care exists, etc). I wish our regulation for duty extensions were written like this, but they are NOT. No one is going to help us here but ourselves. We need to stand tall and as one on this. I've woken up on the highway rumble strips enough times to know that a constant extension to 17 hours for whatever the company needs in order for it to make a little extra money IS NOT SAFE. We've got to stop the abuse of duty extensions, but everyone's got to be on board.

There are risks in this profession and is our job to mitigate them. Battling fatigue is not worth the consequences and is just not professional. Be safe out there.
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Last edited by CL-Skadoo! on Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by crooked timber »

just think of how your rationalization will look in an accident report
When asked to explain a 35-hour duty day that included 13.3 hours of flight time, and only a three
hour nap, the assistant chief pilot attempted to recount the conversations he had with the [dir of logistics], and
the director of safety, in an effort to explain his rational[sic] for accepting the mission. When the
assistant chief pilot was again asked to rationalize assuming such a risk, he replied, "We said,
'This is [expletive]…Why would I do that? I have a mortgage payment, I have a job, and if I don't
do this, I don't have a job anymore."

(from the "company culture" section of this gem of an accident report)
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id= ... 469&rpt=fa
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by ipilot54 »

"unforeseen operational circumstance" - means an event, such as unforecast adverse weather, or an equipment malfunction or air traffic control delay, that is beyond the control of an air operator or private operator;

And the company must submit a report with 24 hours to their POI. After the POI's review a copy of the report is returned, signed by TC (with comments if required) and is to be kept on file until next audit or PV for review.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

Understood, ipilot. However, they do all that and what comes of it? Nothing. The point was don't do it unless its completely warranted, Transport Canada isn't going to take care of it after the fact and don't expect anyone to back you. If anything, if you continued on your duty day when it wasn't justified, you should be held accountable. Again, nothing comes of it, in my experience.

No matter how much paper they throw at it, its a grossly abused loophole in safety.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Liquid Charlie »

I'm thinking the pilots have to grow a set and man up (not gender specific) -- 14 hours (soon to be less we hopes) is the limit and it can also be argued nothing in unforeseen - well almost nothing - we all know the weather gets bad and airplanes break down -- and we are our own worst enemies -- you will extend when it's to your benefit but whine if it's not -- simple - shut it down at 14 hours - and if they fire you I'm thinking a wrongful dismissal suit will work for you financially

medivacs -- I would also like to see the medivac contract issuers reaction if they were advised of people flying when they considered themselves unsafe -- something happens and it's your ass - no one else -- so protect it -- medivac is such an over used term in many ways - it's not intended to be a license to kill -- these guys are making money on your backs and under staff on purpose.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Bushav8er »

I used to tell them that THEIR scheduling errors and 'last minute' "oh we have another Charter" 's went "Unforeseen".
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Heliian »

The CAR's cover a broad spectrum and you have to look at the bigger picture. The duty day req's and associated loopholes apply to all types of operations. Maybe there should be more clarity, but a shorter day is not an option for some operators in the north when daylight is 24 hrs and people want to fly at odd times. You don't have to be behind the stick, exerting yourself for 14hrs straight. that's why it's always the PIC who makes the final decision, regardless of threats of job loss and so on, YOU! have to make the call. And the expemptions are fine too, we're not going to turn down an urgent medevac if the crew is rested enough. IE: you're up at 0600 to start your day, fly a couple of hours, have some downtime but not legal rest, fly some more, finish your day at 2000h and then a call for help comes in at 2030 and there is nothing for 100miles. The PIC makes the decision whether to go or not and the paperwork will get filed afterwards.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by mattedfred »

I have flown commercially for 16 years and have only exceeded my maximum duty day by a few minutes on rare occasions.

This often has resulted in my having to overnight away from base, despite the fact that I was scheduled to be off the following day.

I am fortunate enough to work for a unionized employer that is unable to hold my decisions against me when I bid for an upgrade or am due for a pay rate increase.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by pilotidentity »

The duty day extension isn't a magic pill that gives you a boost of energy. If it read you could fly for 30 hours where would you draw the line? I know its hard to say NO but that is exactly what should be said if you aren't up to it. And don't be apologetic when you do, just state you aren't up to it. Stuff happens to cause delays and its not your problem, so don't take on the responsibility. Its part of aviation.

I agree with the above post that says perhaps you were napping all day and you do feel up to it and the weather is good, you want to do the trip, then why not?
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by E B »

Here's some other guidance that TC offers on their website.

S740.17 Unforeseen Operational Circumstances
(1)Unforeseen operational circumstances (UOC) may be used to allow a pilot to complete a “block” or “cycle” with an extension to the flight time limitations for either the seven, 30 or 90 day periods. For example, a pilot on a 7-day block accumulates 3 additional flight hours during the first 6 days due to UOC. The pilot may still fly a trip on day 7 which takes him/her to a maximum of 43 hours in 7 days. In all cases, the maximum extension allowed is three consecutive hours.

(2)Planning is considered to be unrealistic if the maximum flight duty time or flight time on a particular route is exceeded on more than 10% of occasions where 10 or more flights follow that route in a calendar year. The operator must take appropriate action to ensure that the planning is realistic and the flight or series of flights is completed within the maximum allowable flight time and flight duty time. Flights on routes of less frequency than 10 per year should be dealt with on a case-to-case basis.

(2)UOC relates solely to operational circumstances, which result in delays to a planned schedule. In other words, these circumstances must be crew, weather, aircraft mechanical, ATC or emergency related and must directly affect the operation of the aircraft. Delaying the departure of a flight to wait for a delayed passenger may have an operational effect on the schedule, but it is not an UOC.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Edo »

CL-Skadoo! wrote: TC issued an advisory circular last year for medevac operators, allowing them to go to 17 hours when transporting a patient from an isolated area ONLY ( http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... 2-1655.htm ). There are numerous criteria that must be met (status of patient, one cannot continue from a stop where proper medical care exists, etc). .
Last year? The document you link to is from 1999 and the exemption it refers to expires in 2000.

Was there a CARS change or was the exemption reissued with a current date?
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

I'm not sure what happened there, I had a document with a 2010 date on it. Let me go back and see where I screwed up. Thanks for the catch.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by BEFAN5 »

What happens if a crew member blows their extension period? Who gets the shit, and what is the shit from Transport?
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Hawkerflyer »

If a duty day is busted your employer is likely going to think this is something he can take advantage of. Do not set a precedence! I got stuck in Europe when the Iceland volcano went. Long story short the day ended up pushing 17 hours by the time we were able to get back to Canada. Next trip, boss wanted us to pull another 17 hour day....sorry sir, not going to happen..."why not? You did it last week".
Needless to say they understand the concept now.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by fish4life »

E B wrote:Here's some other guidance that TC offers on their website.

S740.17 Unforeseen Operational Circumstances
(1)Unforeseen operational circumstances (UOC) may be used to allow a pilot to complete a “block” or “cycle” with an extension to the flight time limitations for either the seven, 30 or 90 day periods. For example, a pilot on a 7-day block accumulates 3 additional flight hours during the first 6 days due to UOC. The pilot may still fly a trip on day 7 which takes him/her to a maximum of 43 hours in 7 days. In all cases, the maximum extension allowed is three consecutive hours.

(2)Planning is considered to be unrealistic if the maximum flight duty time or flight time on a particular route is exceeded on more than 10% of occasions where 10 or more flights follow that route in a calendar year. The operator must take appropriate action to ensure that the planning is realistic and the flight or series of flights is completed within the maximum allowable flight time and flight duty time. Flights on routes of less frequency than 10 per year should be dealt with on a case-to-case basis.

(2)UOC relates solely to operational circumstances, which result in delays to a planned schedule. In other words, these circumstances must be crew, weather, aircraft mechanical, ATC or emergency related and must directly affect the operation of the aircraft. Delaying the departure of a flight to wait for a delayed passenger may have an operational effect on the schedule, but it is not an UOC.
just to clarify for guys as well the "block or cycle" is the set of flights you are scheduled for that day. So lets say you were scheduled to do a flight that leaves at 1200 and that one takes you until 1500 to finish then another one at 1600 -2100 and a third flight to leave at 2200 finishing at 0130. If your first flight delayed you 3 hours you are able to continue the other 2 scheduled flights and extend your day to 17 hours even though you know your day will be extended before you depart for your third flight because that third flight was part of the original block of 3 flights

on a side note everyone is different some people are much better adapt to working for 14 hours straight while others are already getting pretty tired after 10 hours so the bottom line is if you are fatigued call it and let your company know before you finish your flight if possible so they have time to find someone to fill in for you. Fatigue is a very serious word in aviation and also shouldn't be abused, if someone is always ending their day "fatigued" after 11 or 12 hours well maybe it's time to find a different job/ career path that will allow you to work 9-5 (transport for example).
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by J31 »

More food for thought. Due to unforeseen delays you are now planning to land and finish very close to 17 hours on duty. 10 minutes out the airport is closed due to a disabled aircraft on the runway and your alternate is an hour away............ :?:

Oh and don't forget to extend your rest!

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#720_17

(a) where flight duty time is extended, the subsequent minimum rest period shall be increased by an amount at least equal to the extension to the flight duty time;
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by Liquid Charlie »

good point above -- since 17 hours is the "drop dead" time and to exceed that is not allowed - you likely should plan your alternate so you don't exceed 17 hours to get there. -- while we are at it is it acceptable to do more stops once 14 hours are exceeded or should you only use the extension to get to final destination -- my vote is for that one - get your ass home or to the white sheets if you have with an extension but don't be using it to complete a mission that is all f'kd up.
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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by I WAS Birddog »

We should conduct a poll on how many more times the 17 hour mark has been reached on back to back days ever since SMS made it's way into the 703/4 world AND followed by a less than minimum crew rest to operate the morning flights with ongoing skeleton staff.

I think you'd be shocked.

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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by HS-748 2A »

In my experience, the worst thing about duty days is the duty day and worst circumstance to have a duty day is on a short-haul freight job.

"OK, I've got this all figured out; if we get up at 4AM and we're on the roll by 04:25, we can do all the loads in 15 minutes and the off-loads in 9 minutes, if there are no other delays, we can 17 trips in before our duty day expires. Don't bother hooking up that ground cable. I'll eat my frozen sandwich while I fuel.."

Captain', There's oil coming out of this right nac'... I should pull this panel and have a look.

How long is that going to take.. !? Unlike you, I'm paid by the mile..

And so the scramble begins.

I've seen more safety "violations" and slip-shod things done, all just to squeak in under the duty day and get that extra trip in. More than any other single cause I can think of.

It makes sense too. The guy long-lining with the door off a Bell 204, neck out in the rain, has the same duty day as a 3-crew 747 copilot sitting there on autopilot, in the middle of the Atlantic, listening to his ipod and reading Vanity Fair. Oh; an exception though - lest I forget: Twin Otter pilots don't get tired.

It's a good thing though. More rules always keep us safe.

I am a Safety Sheep. Please, Big Brother, lead me to the slaughter. I will follow your flourescent green safety vest. It will keep us safe on the way there.

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Re: "Unforeseen" - Use the Farce, Luke

Post by I WAS Birddog »

HS-748 2A for president of aviation :prayer:
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