Becoming a pilot- Is it really that bad?

[SunWuKong]

Thanks everybody. Every bit of information helps!

Ok two pieces of information then:
fuel barrel at $105,45 today.
an other one: we don't have enough doctor.

[SuperchargedRS]

It's not that bad, it really isn't

All sorts of people become pilots, if you can sell yourself, are outgoing and have a passion for aviation (as well as being good at it!) you wont have a issue.

Some have the above attributes and get a few job offers.

Some dont and are unemployed

Truthfully answer as which you are and you have your answer

[niss]

you can do all the flying you want, you will still have to pay a instructor. Not sure what they are charging now $45hr?? you can build your time get some good experience and in a lot of cases you can rent you plane to the local flight school. When your done keep it and have fun or sell it for the same as what you paid for it. If your lucky sell it for more.

WARNING!

Most schools charge you a Class 1 rate for instructing on your own plane. If you get your own airplane, accept the fact that the instruction will probably cost more then if you rented the plane as well. Also many young class 3s are really nervous about freelancing due to conflicts of interest and the long line of jobless instructors behind them.

[Hedley]

Also many young class 3s are really nervous about freelancing

Huh? I have freelance instructed for decades. I really prefer it to working at an FTU. Not sure why a class 3 would be unhappy with keeping the money.

due to conflicts of interest and the long line of jobless instructors behind them

Not sure I understand that. Is the FTU threatening instructors that if they freelance they will fire them?

I'm not sure anyone cares, but you cannot legally get instruction from an FTU on your (private) aircraft, because it's not an FTU aircraft, which must be commercially registered, listed on the OC and maintained IAW their MCM.

[niss]

Also many young class 3s are really nervous about freelancing

Huh? I have freelance instructed for decades. I really prefer it to working at an FTU. Not sure why a class 3 would be unhappy with keeping the money.

They are nervous due to their bosses, and the perception of taking business away from the company.

due to conflicts of interest and the long line of jobless instructors behind them

Not sure I understand that. Is the FTU threatening instructors that if they freelance they will fire them?

I'm not sure anyone cares, but you cannot legally get instruction from an FTU on your (private) aircraft, because it's not an FTU aircraft, which must be commercially registered, listed on the OC and maintained IAW their MCM.

I suggest you contact a few flight schools because they all think they can and that they can charge a premium for it:

http://www.wwflightcentre.com/fleet.html

Instructor Rates:

Flight Training: includes Recreational Pilot Permit, PPL, CPL, Multi Rating and Instrument Rating

$58.00/hour

Instructor Rating Training: inclusive of any training towards an instructor rating

$68.00/hour

Private Aircraft Instructor Rate: if you wish to train in your own aircraft

Normal rates as above, plus $10.00/hour

Simulator:
Elite Simulator

$45.00/hour

Other Fees:

* Headset rental - $5.00 per hour
* No Show – client will be billed one hour of Ground time
* Maintenance – Hourly rate $70.00; Non-client $80.00
* 12 hours notice is required to cancel a flight

Prices current as of January 1st, 2011, and are subject to change without notice.

[Bede]

Why go through a flying school to find an instructor? Just find a freelance instructor; there are enough of us around. I run a small school through our flying club and I have no problem letting my instructors freelance; they can even use our facilities as much as they want for free. That's the benefit of working for me We are a not for profit flying club and it is our mandate to promote aviation in Thunder Bay.

Hedley,

Do you have a ref for that thing about the plane being commercially registered for instructing through an FTU? I have never heard of that and have had class 4's instruct on owners airplanes (with supervision through the FTU) and haven't heard boo from TC.

[niss]

I had a hell of a time finding a new instructor once my buddy moved north. One concern from many instructors I spoke to was their CFI not liking business taken away from the FTU.

[Finnegan]

Any specific type of flying job you're after? After instructing briefly in my teens, 30+ years ago, I decided to go the Ag pilot route. Worked for the new family business, then worked for a crook, quit , bought the family business and took all the crook's customers with me, sold out to my main competitor and then flew for him, etc, etc. It's generally about a 4 month season, give or take, which leaves time to be a musician, carpenter, truck driver, or whatever. The hours are long, and the work is, well, work, but it can be a comfortable living and there's usually not too much politics.

You can take an ag course in Saskatchewan these days. Ag operators are usually looking for ground crew and with your CPL and an Ag course, you should be a good candidate. Demonstrate some good flying skills and a level head (no embellished flying cowboy stories please) and you should get to fly a bit. Some larger operators still keep a Pawnee or Ag Truck around for newer guys to start on. There's always some of us old coots that finally retire and jobs open up, so eventually you'll move into bigger airplanes = more acres = more $. You'll be wearing a flight suit to work, not a tie and snazzy epaulets, but you'll be flying your a$$ off. You won't be able to call yourself Captain so-and-so, but is that what you're after? If you are, that's fine too - old coots retire from the corporate/airline/bush gig too. So there are different directions you can go in the industry. I'm just throwing in another option.
I'm not going to discourage you - I'm also not afraid that you'll steal my job anytime soon. If you do, I've been there too long.

[Andres9123]

Well i dont have specifics at first, but i do wanna get to fly for an airliner later on.

[PunkStarStudios]

We are a not for profit flying club and it is our mandate to promote aviation in Thunder Bay.

You're in Thunder Bay!?
Love that town (to visit
Didn't realize there was a flying club there.

99% of my family lives there so I'll fly a Cessna or a Ho in there to visit from time to time (or stop when I am passing through on a work flight for fuel).

It's a great place for scenic flights. Coming in level with the Mount McKay scenic point is a hoot.

[PunkStarStudios]

You know - in all my previous posts in the various threads related to this - I am always quick to say "Don't do it!"... or more to the point "Do it for fun but not a career". I'll hold back my reasons for the sake of not repeating myself.

But I had a real conundrum the other day. My sister called and asked me for a pic of me in my "flight uniform". Asked why, and she said my nephew was considering becoming a pilot (close to finishing high school).

First reaction was that I was thrilled. I don't get back home (Thunder Bay) that much to see them but I took it as a real compliment that one of my nephews wanted to follow one of the passions from the "cool uncle". I found my position on the subject softening somewhat in my mind... but I think the bottom line is still the same. This is the advice I'll give him on the subject.

If you enjoyed the few times I took you up for a ride, and it stuck with you all these times as something you want to do, then you should consider it but with some parameters.
1) Do it only if you're passionate about it and take it more serious than anything else in your life, your life depends on it.
2) Don't do it if you have dreams of big money or an exotic life style.
3) Understand that you're going to have to flip burgers in your spare time, live with your Mom, and/or instruct others going around and round in a circle for days at a time for quite a while after your training is done.
4) Understand that even once you get your first job (outside of instructing), you're still going to be flipping burgers or bartending if you want to move out from home (granted Thunder Bay living expenses are quite low compared to Toronto).
5) It will take you decades to pay off the training costs and to build up enough hours and experience before you can get a job with a comfortable salary - and there's a good chance you'll have to leave Thunder Bay.
6) The work can be grueling and long - but there is a deep sense of satisfaction at the end of the day. Pilots are "goal oriented" people to say the least. You should be the same or you'll quickly tire of the routine.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Looking back over the last 20 years or so that I have been involved in flight training my guesstimate is that for every 5 people that finish the CPL course only 1 will be making his/her living flying 10 years later.

[Hedley]

a ref for that thing about the plane being commercially registered for instructing through an FTU?

That's a neat idea - an FTU with no aircraft. No MCM, no AMO. Just instruct on privately registered aircraft.

Not sure Transport would go for it. CAR 406.35 says that an FTU must have an MCM for it's aircraft. Are the privately-registered aircraft maintained IAW your MCM?

I have been told that an FTU cannot instruct on private aircraft.

[chinglish]

Looking back over the last 20 years or so that I have been involved in flight training my guesstimate is that for every 5 people that finish the CPL course only 1 will be making his/her living flying 10 years later.

+1
When I instructed I noticed that it was about 25% of the CPL students would finish. This industry has a way of eating its young.

[spaner]

Post deleted

[Geko]

Glad I got my PPL from a Flying Club rather than a flight school. I have my night rating and 250TT and I haven't spent $38k. No debt either and parents didn't pay for any of it.

[N2]

After finishing my private I found myself a good freelancer or so I though. Turns out he was more interested in how many hours he was putting in the old log book not on quality of instruction. So I sought out a retired military friend of my fathers( an older chap) who still held a Class 1 and I think I got the best training I could ever get. He was truly interested in teaching me to be the best pilot I could and never, ever give a thought to his log. If you can find a freelancer like that you won't be disappointed. The only downside to doing it this way as far as I can see is you miss out on making lots of good friends and future contacts in a flying school or club environment.

[Shiny Side Up]

a ref for that thing about the plane being commercially registered for instructing through an FTU?

That's a neat idea - an FTU with no aircraft. No MCM, no AMO. Just instruct on privately registered aircraft.

Not sure Transport would go for it. CAR 406.35 says that an FTU must have an MCM for it's aircraft. Are the privately-registered aircraft maintained IAW your MCM?

I have been told that an FTU cannot instruct on private aircraft.

I'd have to dispute this one if only because I've gotten a different answer from every person I've enquired to at TC about this including the regional superintendant of flight training. There is no specific reg prohibiting a FTU from essentially pimping out its instructors. Evidence contrary to how you interpret this bit of the CARs (and whomever told you this interpretation) is overwhelming.

I will agree that if one could get away with it, it would be a neat idea to run a school without the hassle of an MCM or AMO. Something worth looking into as a side project. Possibly one could run it as sort of a organizer to put instructors and new owner/students together, possibly with a large online component for tracking PTRs and supervision. Unfortunately would probably be still restricted to using class 3s and higher because it would fall under running satellite... hmmm.

[co-joe]

My 02 cents

Get a marketable university degree or a recognized trade certification (eg electrician) first. Work on your flying qualifications as you can afford it. That is what I did, I was 27 when I started my first commercial flying job(instructing). I was debt free and had two other marketable skills which would allow me to earn a good living outside of aviation. Because I had those skills I could be choosy about what flying jobs I would accept and the ability to quit bad jobs. I walked out the door on two operators, one run by a total a**hole and the other that continually pushed me to do unsafe things.

Best advice going.

Smartest pilot I ever met was a rampie at Peace Air about the time I became a co-joe on my first King Air. He took me out for lunch in his new truck one day and told me a story about making good money before getting into aviation.

Last time I heard his name it was in a Globe and Mail article about people who had made money on the real estate boom in Calgary, then moved on to SK and made even more money on another real estate boom. He did this all while being a poorly paid pilot, and all because of how well set up he was before he worked for the once upon a time but now defunct lowest paying company in AB.