What would you do?

[ZBBYLW]

As an engineer you would have the money to rent/own an airplane and fly when you want - where you want.

I could have done other things myself, but I turned out to be a pilot. It is what I always wanted to do since I was a young lad. I had to move to a different province, away from family and friends, nice weather (I was from Vancouver myself), a nice city, my GF at the time to find work. I found it and have done fairly well for myself (Read: Moved up quicker than a lot of people around me). At the end of the day though I found my passion and am doing what I love to do. The pay is better here than many other places in Canada, but I still earned more when I was 19.

I can't make your decision up for you but I choose flying over other careers. I am very happy with that choice that I made, even though I have lost a lot... Now living in a Colder climate, a city that is not Vancouver (and quite far from it), lost touch of some friends I had from back home, lost the gf I had from back home, worked about a year of my life way with no life outside of work to "get ahead". After all that, you still can look at the positive - I am doing what I love, I met many new great people at work, work at a great company and am finally getting life outside of work back in order. I am happy where I ended up.

[pilotbzh]

Don't be stupid, the enginering degree will open more airline position than a pilot licence, get your PPL on your spare time, if timing is on your side you may be able to pursue a flying career, if not you can use your degree to survive until times get better...

[sheephunter]

If you were my 18 year old son / daughter, the advise I would give you would be to go get your education in engineering and to stay at home to go to school if that was possible and the schools were comparable, apples to apples. I would even consider doing whatever I needed to buy a C150 and get you set up to at least get your PPl and work on building the hours toward your CPL while you were going to school as a bribe to go that direction. Doing this, you would end up with your degree in engineering and get some of the enjoyment you find in flying which hopefully would keep you satisfied and doing well while in school. Once you finished school you would have the CPL to try to find work and the engineering degree to get you a job and start paying off bills. I've always believed in living your dreams so the above would be hard to sell my kids with any degree of sincerity but it would be my initial approach.

[Justin.Case]

If I could do it all over again I would take university first and get the pilot's license on the side. Forget about those college programs. They take too long and most flight training units will nickel and dime you the whole way. Your "diploma" will hardly see you manage a lemonade stand let alone an airline. No one really gives a sh*t about an aviation management diploma anyways, and it certainly doesn't hold any weight to a degree in engineering.

Go to uni, enjoy the frat life! When you start making money in the last couple years of your degree you can get your pilot's license on the side. IMHO it's much cheaper if you do it on your own and over a short period of time. Added bonus is you have a second career to fall back on should your ticker ever skip a beat and you lose your medical.

Good luck.

[structurespilot]

Get the degree first. I became an AME first, which has allowed me to have a house, food, and all that good stuff. My AME licence has given me great opportunities to work all around the world too. Even met my wife working in another country. Its exciting to be in your shoes right now! Enjoy it.
Then once you are established as an engineer, buy that C150 and do the flying thing. If you time it right, you can call it your mid life crisis.. Good luck, study hard, and you'll do great..

[kevinsky18]

I've worked in engineering and aviation. I know plenty of first year Engineering jobs that will pay you over $100,000 in the first year out of school. Your first aviation job you'll be lucky to clear $20,000 it will be on a ramp or dock and you will be washing planes not flying them for a year or two (note a total of 4 years same as an engineering degree). And that's IF IF IF you get a job. Once / IF you do start flying (now you're up to 5-6 years same time as Masters in Engineering) expect a pay cut not a raise.

To make that $100,000 in engineering you're going to have to go to a remote northern site, or work out of country away from your friends and family but that's no different than getting your first flying gig.

Take that first year engineering salary and pay off your student loans for engineering. Use the left over to pay for a private pilot’s license.

Then use the salary from your second year work as an Engineer to pay for your commercial pilot’s license including all the bells and whistles, ie. Multi-IFR, Float rating etc. Use the left over cash to buy a good vehicle, some fancy aviation toys eg. GPS etc.

Ok now you have an Engineering degree (note a real degree in something that is truly recognized and valued), a commercial pilot’s license with all the ratings. A $100,000 a year job and no student debt for either the engineering or the commercial license.

If you go the other way and try and do your commercial pilot’s license first you won't make enough money to pay off your commercial pilot’s license student loans for years. Also your life time allowable student loan limit will be used up on your commercial pilots license so even if you do decided to go back to school and become an engineer you won’t be able to get a student loan to pay for it and you won’t ever make enough as a commercial pilot to save up to pay for engineering on your own. Ok maybe by the time you’re 40 you might just start breaking the $100,000 a year pay scale as a pilot but by then you will have a family, rent or mortgage to pay etc

As a fully qualified engineer you also have other aviation job prospects such as working for Air Canada, WJ or others in their maintenance facility as an engineer not as a mechanic. I know one engineer who worked for AC as part of his engineering student internship. I know another who works for Bombardier.

Simple math and logic says do your Engineering first and the ppl and cpl second, you will have a much more successful career this way.

[North Shore]

Do the degree. Use the proceeds from your first few years to pay for your CPL (if you are still interested.) Then make the decision to get into aviation.

'Course, you won't listen to us and will do what you want to do anyway!

[iflyforpie]

Tough to say what I would do.

My uncle (my mom's youngest brother, six years older than me) and I both took a discovery flight the same day in SXP at the Calgary Flying Club about 12 years ago. He had just finished his Electrical Engineering degree at UVic and was working in Calgary, and I was just finishing up my AME course at SAIT.

I went on to get my PPL, CPL, and wound up working for a living as a pilot/AME. My uncle works for some kind of tech company in the Lower Mainland. We sort of live vicariously through each other. I certainly could have been an engineer, and he could have thrown it all away and flown for a living.

The thing is, whenever we get together, he always wants to talk about what I do, but he never wants to talk about what he does. He just says, 'it's like Office Space'. He makes lots of money, but spends lots too. The house he bought was nearly a million dollars, and is nothing special compared to houses where I live in the 3-400,000 range. Long commute to work, a wife and three kids to feed now, so really no time or money to pursue recreational flying.

I don't make a lot of money (the AME ticket definitely helps pay the bills), but I make enough to support a family and own my own house. The most important thing is I do my hobby for a living; a hobby that I definitely wouldn't have the time or money to do to the degree I commit aviation now.

[the_cr]

OR; sell that 205 dollar bill. One of those has got to be pretty rare

[teacher]

My brother in law is an engineer and is 10 years younger than me, 2 years into his career. I am 13 years into mine as a pilot and his salary blows mine away. Personally I don't have the math smarts (or drive) to do what he does, my drive was to fly and be a pilot. If you won't be happy doing anything else than follow your dream and be a pilot. If you're like many others and flying is one of a few choices to do as a career GO DO ENGINEERING! Graduate school, than get your license than decide if that's what you want to do. When you get layed off as a pilot (and you will) you'll be able to work somewhere else where as "pilot" only folks have very little if any transferable skills.

[LegoMan]

My best friend did engineering at McMaster and was paid $78,000/yr at his internship. That was more than 4 years ago now hes easily doing 6 figures....funny thing is when I was flying he thought I was making more money than him...

Get an engineering degree first than weigh your options to see if its even worth getting your CPL

[RatherBeFlying]

My advice would be to do the engineering degree first -- and do it in BC (this coming from somebody who has spent far, far too many years in Toronto). Pilots generally like being outdoors. From Toronto it's a big long miserable traffic jam on weekends to get out of the city, then back to work Sun. Not to say that Van does not have serious traffic, but the travel to something worthwhile is usually not as aggravating.

As for scratching the flying itch without spending too much money while going to school, fly gliders, i.e. Hope. Yes, it will cost a bit to get solo, but once you learn thermalling you can get several hours in the air for the cost of a tow -- maybe buy a half-share in a decent glider for $7,500 - $20,000. A lot of glider clubs have youth memberships at discounted rates. When you are earning enough bucks to fly behind an engine, you glider experience will shorten the expensive instruction.

If I was your dad, I'd put up the 1/2 share in return for some good grades in 1st year uni.

Yes, you can end up in an office job in an expensive urban area -- a common hazard to any degreed professional. Engineering does offer opportunities in smaller communities that pay extremely well. The choice is yours.

[flyinggreasemonkey]

Engineering by far is your best choice. You'll be able to get a steady job with benefits and a pension plan and you can make more than enough to keep flying as a hobby on the side. The fastest way to suck most of the joy out of something you love doing is to make a career out of it.

[luckheed]

Congrats on the acceptance letters, I too was in a very similar situation 10 years ago, and opted to go to university and then get my pilots licenses. Well degree in hand and over 4000 hours later with jet/glass time, still no interview with the major players. Still I wouldn't change a thing, the 4 years at uni will be well spent, it'll give you more prespective later and you will always be able to pursue a commercial job after. Heck, if you can't get a flying job, at least you can go build' em!

I'd opt for the University of BC though, much better but I'm a little biased since thats where I went.

Good Luck!
LH

[nimbostratus]

If you have to ask for advice as to which path you should take, go do the engineers degree.

In my past, the majority of advice I got about being a pilot was negative (even from a group of stretch DC-8 pilots on a cockpit tour on my way to Hawaii). I ignored it and today have a great flying career with no regrets.
You put up with enough adversity in your first few years (or more for many) in this career, that if you have doubts, you'll never make it, or at least not without regrets.

As a result, if anyone I knew asked if they should be a pilot, I would tell them, "no". If they ignore me and do it anyway, they want it bad enough to be successful.

Cheers,

Nimbo

[petey]

It should be noted that an engineering degree is not something to "fall back on." Hypothetically speaking, you get your degree, while finishing your CPL. Once finished you decide to go the aviation route, and unfortunately lose your medical at age 48. At this point, being removed from your specific engineering field for say, 20 years, it's not going to be possible, or easy to find employment in your field when there are new grads with more relevant education (to the time). I guess, you need to figure it out, and start working towards it; whichever road you take. Good luck.

[pilotidentity]

If you want to be a pilot start flying young and get your first flying job as soon as you can. Flying sure beats sitting in an office someplace.

Lots of us started at your age and don't regret it for a minute. So many amazing experiences at a young age that you couldn't possibly pay for with your engineering wage even if you wanted to. Get your education while you are flying and DO get it. If you want to go to the airlines the education will help but you most likely won't need it for your first job. Try to fly up north as it will be a real eye opener at your young age. Try to stay single. Don't think about money too much. Heaven forbid you ever need to fall back on that education and get a real job!

If you want to be a pilot, become a pilot, get the best training you can, get all the ratings you can, try different things, give it all your best, meet and be friendly with as many pilots as you can.

[rigpiggy]

let me put it this way, if I could afford it, I'd go back to finish my degree.

[randallg]

I'll chime in and agree that you should get the Engineering degree, if you have the aptitude for it. Not everyone does, but unlike many other professions like medicine, law or accounting, you don't have to spend years working your ass off for peanuts. You can go right into a well paying career.

I got my Electrical Engineering degree at UBC and it is an excellent school. Now I make good money and fly my own plane across the continent each year for fun. When I retire I might look for a job as a pilot, like the previous owner of my plane did.

[fleet16b]

Don't be stupid, the enginering degree will open more airline position than a pilot licence, get your PPL on your spare time, if timing is on your side you may be able to pursue a flying career, if not you can use your degree to survive until times get better...

Totally agree !!!! Education first

[bizjets101]

Hi j0rdan

Hands down, I'd take UBC.

There is nothing Toronto has over BC, so I'd definitely take UBC. You also live in the area and I assume have family and friends in the area.

You can still join a local flying club - and as a member get to meet lots of pilots, make plenty of aviation friends, go for club trips - and these pilots will have immense respect for a young future pilot - attending University earning an Engineering Degree.

If you hate school (which you won't!!) you can always quite - and go after the flying at anytime - it doesn't work the other way around.

UBC campus is an amazing place to go to school, enjoy every minute of it.

http://www.engineering.ubc.ca/

http://copa5.wordpress.com/oldbbfc-2/club-history/ Boundry Bay Flying Club

[costermonger]

A friend of mine graduated a couple years ago in SW Ontario and the going rate for mechanical engineers straight out of school is just over $40k. That's not to say there aren't really good paying jobs out there - and hey, $40k is more than you'll make with a nice fresh CPL - but I have a feeling going to school for engineering because it's a ticket to a 6 figure job the week after you graduate is no different that getting your CPL because pilots make $250k.

All that said, as an engineer, you expect your pay to only go one direction. In this industry, that's not a realistic expectation unless you only work for one company in your career.

[mcrit]

Regular Officer Training Plan.

[Posthumane]

If you have a head for engineering and enjoy technical work, definitely go for the degree. I would agree with the other that said go to UBC as well.

The engineering world is very wide, and there are all sorts of jobs available. You could end up in an office job pushing paper *if you choose to* but there are a lot of interesting jobs as well if you are willing to look for them, including many "hands-on" positions in aerospace companies. In order to get a decent job as a pilot you have to be willing to give up your family life, move anywhere in the country, and maybe throw bags and clean toilets for a while. If you are willing to move around the country you could find work in much more interesting places and fields as an engineer.

While you can't expect a 6 figure salary right away, even our internship students make about $40k now and the organization I work for is nowhere near the top of the pay scales. Take a look at a salary survey of some of the provincial engineering associations to get an idea what to expect. After I graduated a few years ago, it took me a few months to find a job since I rejected many which did not interest me, but even with my first job I was able to afford a plane of my own and can fly whenever I feel like it. I may pursue a CPL in the future sometime, as well as other ratings, but I know that I don't HAVE TO in order to feed myself.

I am in no way advocating settling for something safe and giving up your dream, I'm just saying that engineering can be very interesting and another avenue for fulfilling that dream. With a specialization related to aviation and a passion for it, you could do a lot more than simply fly A to B. Working towards your PPL while you attend school will also look good on a resume.

[RFlyer]

Hi J0rdan,

I wasn't pondering one or the other, but I went through Engineering at UofT and then got my PPL, so I can give you my thoughts from having followed that route.

I understand exactly what IFlyforPie says about his uncle having kids, mortgage, etc. - things that prevent him from flying on a regular basis. That's happened to me too, but then I'm assuming you don't have a mortgage, wife or kids, and with a little self control (and some luck) you can avoid those things until you have had a chance to get established on a course you are happy with. I'd recommend you get your degree and pursue flying as a hobby until you are done. You are plenty young enough to enjoy two or even three careers in your life and engineering would give you a good background to follow any number of other routes - including flying. Plus, all the comments about financial security in Engineering are generally true. You would probably accelerate your aviation training with some bucks in the bank and your engineering degree - whatever field it happens to be in - will definitely help you excel in learning to fly. And even though others have referred to flying as a "hobby" activity if you take the University route, that doesn't mean you can just dabble in it. You need to have the same level of commitment as the professionals do; but if you love flying then you will do that anyhow.

As for choice of uni - UBC would be my choice if I were starting over. The people I work with who are UBC engineering graduates are all top notch and the facilities are excellent. UofT is also a great choice, but in Vancouver I think it's easier to get to an airport for flight training, but I'm sure I'll be stomped on for saying it

And congratulations on getting acceptance from two of the best universities in the country, BTW. You must have done very well in school to get them - there's a ton of people out there who are very disappointed because they didn't.

Feel free to PM me about engineering questions too.

regards,

RF