"Rotational" jobs?

[Northern Skies]

This winter layoff thing is getting old. It sure would be nice to move away from seasonal work into one of those rotational gigs. You know, the 2-on/2-off or 3/3, 3/2 etc.

Can anyone list some companies who work this way and any details/hints?

It would be for a guy with 2500, pretty much all float PIC on everything up to an otter.
However, I have no significant multi, instrument, or ski time.
I guess I'd be looking at a twin otter job, airtractor fuel-hauler, or something like that. Where should I be looking?

[Mr. North]

Voyageur and a number of survey companies like SGL or Fugro come to mind.

I think out of the three of those, Voyageur would be the most secure. For most survey operations it's either feast or famine. I was in your shoes just two years ago looking to replace the annual lay off with some steady work. Instead I found myself getting 'laid off' every two or three months and never knew when or where my next paycheck would come from. To fly floats for the summer you'd pretty much have to 'quit' and hope they have enough work in the fall to bring you back online.

If you manage to find another operator that is willing to let a pilot leave to fly floats during what is typically the busiest time of year and have a job waiting for them on their return, please let me know!

[Northern Skies]

Thank you. In your case, were you looking for those jobs to supplement a seasonal float career?

Ideally, I would like such a job to replace it. Something like a steady 2 hard weeks on, and 2 weeks off, perhaps with the ability to commute from time off so that it doesn't matter where in the north the work is. A position drawing from a bush background would be ideal, because that is the thing separating me from most other guys, perhaps especialy if there is some float flying involved ie. twin otter etc. However, I don't really care what plane, I'm after a new lifestyle. But aside from jumping into a sched wasaya caravan in YPL for a 50% paycut like some colleagues have done, where is the next step?

I am willing to move full-time to a job at somewhere half-decent (better than, say, stony rapids!), no problem with that. But what I want to get away from is going away for six months and then going somewhere else for the other 6.... always having to drag your life around and start over again, and being unable to commit to anything in private life. Or the other case of living at one base for a couple of months, then another, then another etc. With a more frequent commute back and forth to work, I would not have a problem with living out of a suitcase at work while planting some roots elsewhere and doing something crazy like.... buying a house!

I am absolutely motivated to do fantastic work, but would like the opportunity to have a home and a private life as well.

Rotation or not, what is "steady", where should I look for that sort of job?
Thanks again for the help!

[Rowdy]

As stated above.. The survey companies offer rotations, a lot of the medevac operators do 10 and 4 or 2 and 2.. Borek does 2 and 2 on the beech side for skippers and 3 and 3 for twotter pilots on northern rotations. Those rotations though are just a guideline.. Adlair was doing rotations for skippers too.. and I think CHC on the twin otter as well. Hope that helps

[Northern Skies]

Yeah... that really helps. I never thougt of Adlair and CHC.

What are Tindi and Arctic Sunwest like?

[Changes in Latitudes]

Tindi is an outstanding organization, but last I heard, neither are rotational (please correct me if this has changed).

[Northern Skies]

I thought so, but they are based in a decent place so I'll keep them in mind.

[Northern Skies]

Thanks for all of the pm's, they are very helpful.

Keep 'em coming!

[wallypilot]

Voyageur and a number of survey companies like SGL or Fugro come to mind.

I think out of the three of those, Voyageur would be the most secure. For most survey operations it's either feast or famine. I was in your shoes just two years ago looking to replace the annual lay off with some steady work. Instead I found myself getting 'laid off' every two or three months and never knew when or where my next paycheck would come from. To fly floats for the summer you'd pretty much have to 'quit' and hope they have enough work in the fall to bring you back online.

If you manage to find another operator that is willing to let a pilot leave to fly floats during what is typically the busiest time of year and have a job waiting for them on their return, please let me know!

With Fugro and Sander Geophysics, you're paid a salary so the "lay off" every 2 or 3 months doesn't apply here. Of course, that's not to say that you wouldn't get laid off if the work dried up, but that's true anywhere. You'll actually find that once you have a bit of survey experience, and a bit of seniority, that these 2 survey companies would be very stable from a financial perspective.

[Justin.Case]

With Fugro and Sander Geophysics, you're paid a salary so the "lay off" every 2 or 3 months doesn't apply here. Of course, that's not to say that you wouldn't get laid off if the work dried up, but that's true anywhere. You'll actually find that once you have a bit of survey experience, and a bit of seniority, that these 2 survey companies would be very stable from a financial perspective.

Well your half right.. Pilots do not get paid a salary in the full sense of the word, they are paid on a per day basis. The 'salary' that people quote here is really just a goal of what a pilot should make in a year. Whether you come in over or under that mark really depends on how much work there is (not much going on right now). On their month off, pilots are paid a standby rate which is the same amount they would make sitting on EI. So in a sense Mr. North is correct as during this time pilots make next to nothing. It's okay for one month but any longer and it starts getting painful. Heck, last time I was on EI for any length of time, I was looking for a job!! Management does their best to have pilots 'work' in the office but it's never a sure thing and even then your not making nearly as much as one would in the field.

With the exception of one or two individuals who have worked there for over ten years, there is no real seniority at SGL.

Since times are tight I wouldn't suggest the pay is stable. I've had a few tours cut short and it's not a good feeling coming home early and with less money then you had hoped to make. Hopefully things will pick up now that the oil prices are rising again.

[chipmunk]

Well your half right.. Pilots do not get paid a salary in the full sense of the word, they are paid on a per day basis. The 'salary' that people quote here is really just a goal of what a pilot should make in a year. Whether you come in over or under that mark really depends on how much work there is (not much going on right now). On their month off, pilots are paid a standby rate which is the same amount they would make sitting on EI. So in a sense Mr. North is correct as during this time pilots make next to nothing. It's okay for one month but any longer and it starts getting painful. Heck, last time I was on EI for any length of time, I was looking for a job!! Management does their best to have pilots 'work' in the office but it's never a sure thing and even then your not making nearly as much as one would in the field.

That may be case at Sander, perhaps, but at Fugro it's as Wallypilot describes.

[wallypilot]

With Fugro and Sander Geophysics, you're paid a salary so the "lay off" every 2 or 3 months doesn't apply here. Of course, that's not to say that you wouldn't get laid off if the work dried up, but that's true anywhere. You'll actually find that once you have a bit of survey experience, and a bit of seniority, that these 2 survey companies would be very stable from a financial perspective.

Well your half right.. Pilots do not get paid a salary in the full sense of the word, they are paid on a per day basis. The 'salary' that people quote here is really just a goal of what a pilot should make in a year. Whether you come in over or under that mark really depends on how much work there is (not much going on right now). On their month off, pilots are paid a standby rate which is the same amount they would make sitting on EI. So in a sense Mr. North is correct as during this time pilots make next to nothing. It's okay for one month but any longer and it starts getting painful. Heck, last time I was on EI for any length of time, I was looking for a job!! Management does their best to have pilots 'work' in the office but it's never a sure thing and even then your not making nearly as much as one would in the field.

With the exception of one or two individuals who have worked there for over ten years, there is no real seniority at SGL.

Since times are tight I wouldn't suggest the pay is stable. I've had a few tours cut short and it's not a good feeling coming home early and with less money then you had hoped to make. Hopefully things will pick up now that the oil prices are rising again.

So, we're both half right! I did make an assumption about Sander as I have never worked there, but as chipmunk says, at Fugro, you get a large portion of your salary whether you're in the field or not.

[Jerz]

Generaly rotation jobs are in places people would normaly not relocate with their families - high Arctic, Thirld World, war zones..The best are for the big oil, UN, survey. Most are helicopter ops (CHC, Bristow), but some also run fixed wings (Zimex?). Generaly the pay and benefits are above average, but they only look for very experience guys.
It is not a life style for everybody - living in a compound behind a razor wire, going to work with armed escort, good chance of being shot at.
Personaly, I like my 6 month off per year, have being doing it for 15 years and hope to do it for another 11, but most guys don't last very long. l

[KenoraPilot]

Regional 1 is hiring DHC8 for over seas work!? The ad's up now!

[STOLskunkworks]

If you have some working French. You could try Air Inuit head office in Montreal they do 2/2 (week) rotations in the north. They are a very good outfit that many people choose to make a career at. They have everything from Twin Otters to 737's and appreciate guys with bush / float time. They are also the parent company of a small float outfit with a beaver and Turbine otter which you might be able to do some amount of float flying on once in a while.

[ba31pilot]

West Wind runs a rotation out of Stony Rapids now. They use King Air 200's on a 8 day on, 6 day off rotation. Not sure if that would work but there is LOTS of movement there from what I hear.

[Top_Gun]

Would any of these companies that offer rotations appreciate a low timer more if he/she was also an experienced AME apprentice?

I would love to get on with a company like Sander and travel the world and would like to think that they would hire a F/O that would be able to help wrench on the aircraft out in the field. Do any of these companies hire like that?

[KK7]

Would any of these companies that offer rotations appreciate a low timer more if he/she was also an experienced AME apprentice?

I would love to get on with a company like Sander and travel the world and would like to think that they would hire a F/O that would be able to help wrench on the aircraft out in the field. Do any of these companies hire like that?

This may help you at some companies, and it may not help at others. I know at a place like Sander where they have had people doing both jobs before that it did not end well. It's generally better in these kinds of operations to have different people doing each job so as to avoid fatigue issues. When things get busy, the pilots need their rest since survey can take quite a bit out of you, and the AMEs need their rest as well since in the places they work are often brutally hot and working out in these conditions drain you.

All this being said though, it certainly doesn't hurt to try. SGL is a good place for low timers as they use them as FOs on the C208B, and that's a great way to build up some experience and eventually you can move over to the left seat. There will be times the pilots are called to help with a bit of maintenance and you'd be valuable then too.