Sunwing to Europe!

[ChallengerDan]

Apparently they will be flying to Europe this summer.

Not sure where the equipment is going to be coming from.


http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/5080356/

http://www.sunwing.ca/newsstory.asp?id=258

[TopperHarley]

I guess they're acquiring 767s?

[tailgunner]

or they will have a wet lease deal with an overseas carrier....
is there enough time to aquire, integrate and train a 767 operation before June?
I smell an outsource.

[ng78]

My guess is it will be with EuroAtlantic Airways. With that in mind, I wonder if they still have their L1011 in service?

[JTF01]

My guess is it will be with EuroAtlantic Airways. With that in mind, I wonder if they still have their L1011 in service?

If it was EuroAtlantic, I'd take them just to fly on an L1011 again!

[Realitychex]

Apparently they will be flying to Europe this summer.

Not sure where the equipment is going to be coming from.


http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/5080356/

http://www.sunwing.ca/newsstory.asp?id=258

What awards did Sunwing acquire to make the claim of "award winning service"?

[b73]

Fly GoGoJet!

Was waiting to hear who was going to win this one....

[kp1]

The Sunwing flights from Toronto to Amsterdam last summer were operated by Arkefly using 767s.

[Vortex_driver]

when you select the flights for booking, it's showing Corsair...

[Localizer]

How is this exciting news? Its more of the same from Sunwing .. Canadian flights operated by foreign pilots.

That's a good enough reason for me to never book Sunwing.

Call me a protectionist.

[mbav8r]

Protectionist!
Me too, call me a protectionist, I wear that title proudly!!!

[Troubleshot]

Hey its better than no companies coming to Canada at all. It's not all about pilot jobs you know boys, who do you think is gonna fuel these planes, cater them, do maintenance on them, check the passengers in, ramp service, etc...all Canadian companies.

Maybe a look at the bigger picture rather than the typical, self-centered pilot view. For the approx. loss of 10 pilots jobs many other aviation professionals will benefit from this business.

[Inverted2]

How long till we have cheap Chinese airlines doing contracted overseas flying? Seems logical since we are outsourcing just about everything else to them.

[fingersmac]

Thankfully they can't keep up with the demand in their own country for now.

[Localizer]

Hey its better than no companies coming to Canada at all. It's not all about pilot jobs you know boys, who do you think is gonna fuel these planes, cater them, do maintenance on them, check the passengers in, ramp service, etc...all Canadian companies.

Maybe a look at the bigger picture rather than the typical, self-centered pilot view. For the approx. loss of 10 pilots jobs many other aviation professionals will benefit from this business.

I have no issue with other companies flying in and out of Canada. I have issues with flights carrying Canadian passenger's under a Canadian banner, utilizing foreign pilots. Those flights would still be done .. the groomer's would still groom, mechanic's will fix, and catering/fuel will still be supplied .. just put Canadian pilots in the seats.

BTW .. who was being self-centered when you wrote that post?

[gonnabeapilot]

This is no different than what Air Transat has been doing for the last 5 (?) or so years with Thomas Cook airlines operating the majority of their flights to the UK... Nobody seems to complain about that. Transat only has a year-round need for so many wide-bodies in their fleet and as a result, any excess lift required for the short summer season comes from Thomas Cook. This will be Sunwing's first year ever where they could potentially justify the year-round operation of wide-bodies in their fleet. They are at least going one step further than Air Transat and crewing the wet-leased airplanes with Canadian FAs. If after this summer Sunwing feels the European program works, I wouldn't be surprised if you see them shopping around for a couple of wide-bodies. Otherwise you'll see the European stuff dropped next summer and wet-leasing the airplanes for 4 months this summer will look like a brilliant business decision. If this out-sourcing becomes common year after year, then by all means, I will be the first to complain... but to me this sounds like a temporary measure to test the waters in their first year... time will tell.

As far as the comment amount Sunwing's service... I don't know if it's award winning or not, but the cabin service you receive on the charter carriers these days puts the buy on board programs at Westjet and AC to shame. Yes, they may be lacking with leg-room and OTP, but when it comes to service, I think they have every right to brag...

[Troubleshot]

Well you know and I know that the only way Canadians will travel anywhere for leisure is if it is dirt cheap. The only way that's going to happen is if these budget vacation airlines use foreign pilots to keep costs down. Like it or not other aviation professionals benefit from this arrangement.... sunwing would have to buy a couple of widebodies, crew them, train everyone in the company on the new type, etc... all to fly to Europe for the summer....OR they could still make money with much less risk and just charter the jets for the summer.

I don't like the foreign thing either but if it wasn't for this arrangement no one would have any extra work, and Air Canada would be charging $3500 return to get to France...you get what I'm sayin'?

[Localizer]

This is no different than what Air Transat has been doing for the last 5 (?) or so years with Thomas Cook airlines operating the majority of their flights to the UK... Nobody seems to complain about that.

Sorry gonnabeapilot .. I don't really care about what goes on in other countries. If they wanna use our pilots and planes to fly their people around .. then that's for there pilots to deal with, we'll deal with it on our end.

Well you know and I know that the only way Canadians will travel anywhere for leisure is if it is dirt cheap. The only way that's going to happen is if these budget vacation airlines use foreign pilots to keep costs down. Like it or not other aviation professionals benefit from this arrangement.... sunwing would have to buy a couple of widebodies, crew them, train everyone in the company on the new type, etc... all to fly to Europe for the summer....OR they could still make money with much less risk and just charter the jets for the summer.

I don't like the foreign thing either but if it wasn't for this arrangement no one would have any extra work, and Air Canada would be charging $3500 return to get to France...you get what I'm sayin'?

Well Troubleshot .. since you seem to be involved in the maintenance end of things .. i'll put it into perspective. Maybe airlines should farm out more of there maintenance to other countries? More heavy maintenance in Ecuador? Maybe hire cheaper foreign AME's on contract? How does that float your boat?

How about educating the Canadian public about the cost of operating an aircraft and that you can't fly for the price of a ticket on Greyhound. How about the government step into the mix when companies like Jetsgo-ne wanna ruin yields by offering an insane return fare of $0.01? I have no issue with a "free market" but how about a watch-dog for crap like that.

To stay on topic .. Canadian company, Canadian plane, Canadian brand .. Canadian workers. If you can't afford the cost to fly on a plane .. then maybe you shouldn't fly?

[Troubleshot]

Think your missing my point.....I don't agree with the foreigners coming here, I'm just saying the flying would not exsist otherwise.

[Localizer]

Think your missing my point.....I don't agree with the foreigners coming here, I'm just saying the flying would not exsist otherwise.

The flying wouldn't exist otherwise? How do you figure? .. Obviously they feel the route is viable or they wouldn't have set the operation up .. So no I don't see your point.

[TFTMB heavy]

[quote]
This is no different than what Air Transat has been doing for the last 5 (?) or so years with Thomas Cook airlines operating the majority of their flights to the UK... Nobody seems to complain about that. Transat only has a year-round need for so many wide-bodies in their fleet and as a result, any excess lift required for the short summer season comes from Thomas Cook./quote]

Air Transat does not outsource work, group Transat does. The Thomas Cook deal, as far as I know and I may be wrong, was part of a contract when they (group Transat) bought a tour operator in the UK/Europe. Some of that work is now coming back to Air Transat.

FWIW

[Troubleshot]

Think your missing my point.....I don't agree with the foreigners coming here, I'm just saying the flying would not exsist otherwise.

The flying wouldn't exist otherwise? How do you figure? .. Obviously they feel the route is viable or they wouldn't have set the operation up .. So no I don't see your point.

Viable yes...only if the tour operator is not on the hook for widebodies, training staff (pilots, AME's, F/A's. etc...). No seasonal operation is going to aquire these aircraft just for the summer. There is hardly any risk to Sunwing to offer this service if another company is on the hook for the aircraft, crews, and maintenance. It is strictly dollars and cents and risk factor, Alot harder to break into the overseas market and fill a A330 then it is to fill a 737-800 in winter in Canada...so if you don't get that, I am not gonna waste any more key strokes.

[Localizer]

You see it from your perspective .. and I see it from mine .. that's all there is to it. I'll be sure to remind you of this thread when I see more AME's out of work due to outsourcing. I know you won't have a problem with it because atleast the company is making money .. just not for you.

Save your key strokes ...

[WetJet]

Think your missing my point.....I don't agree with the foreigners coming here, I'm just saying the flying would not exsist otherwise.

Not true. The new routes are all currently served by Transat and most by Air Canada as well. All with Canadian aircraft.

[Troubleshot]

Think your missing my point.....I don't agree with the foreigners coming here, I'm just saying the flying would not exsist otherwise.

Not true. The new routes are all currently served by Transat and most by Air Canada as well. All with Canadian aircraft.

Yes, but Air Canada has current infrastructure and successful routes that utilize widebody aircraft year round, and Transat already has an all widebody fleet that it utilizes year round...my point is....if Sunwing wants a piece of this market they can do it without risking the whole company by acquiring widebody aircraft and still generate revenue for Canadian aviation companies....if Sunwing already had widebodies and still farmed out the work I would see you argument.

Again, for the record I don't agree with it...but if some Canadian companies benefit from it, I'll take it.